4 replies to this topic

[TatianaLC]

Dear all,

I am writing a document regarding sampling and corective actions in case of non-compliances. Please let me know what to write down when in meat preparation is found (monitoring) Salmonella and shelf-life is already expired (lab needs time for analysis and during this time shelf-life expires), beside that meat preparation needs to be cooked before eaten and Salmonella is destroyed under high temperature - pasterization). Do I have to do a recall?

regards!

[Charles.C]

Dear all,

I am writing a document regarding sampling and corective actions in case of non-compliances. Please let me know what to write down when in meat preparation is found (monitoring) Salmonella and shelf-life is already expired (lab needs time for analysis and during this time shelf-life expires), beside that meat preparation needs to be cooked before eaten and Salmonella is destroyed under high temperature - pasterization). Do I have to do a recall?

regards!

Dear TatianaLC,

Yr post is a little unclear to me.

I assume the positive Salmonella detection has been made by you and not some external official control. If the latter, any further actions will be determined by local legislative rules for the product involved.

Or do you mean yr internal lab results hv detected Salmonella in a sample from a lot which has already been shipped/despatched (your use of the term "recall" suggests this).?

I don't quite see how shelf-life can be expired, usual analysis time max.5-6 days only.?

IMEX, typical haccp plans require product being tested for Salmonella to be cleared before shipment (positive release) or, rarely, be recalled where the analysis results become available while the product is still in transit to its initial (usually local) destination.

The typical actions if not yet shipped relate to doing a repeat analysis / re-sampling / parallel investigation into possible sources of contamination for the (hopefully) individual lot code with the detected Salmonella.

Can you clarify the specific situation ?.

Rgds / Charles.C

[hygienic]

Dear TatianaLC,

Yr post is a little unclear to me.

I assume the positive Salmonella detection has been made by you and not some external official control. If the latter, any further actions will be determined by local legislative rules for the product involved.

Or do you mean yr internal lab results hv detected Salmonella in a sample from a lot which has already been shipped/despatched (your use of the term "recall" suggests this).?

I don't quite see how shelf-life can be expired, usual analysis time max.5-6 days only.?

IMEX, typical haccp plans require product being tested for Salmonella to be cleared before shipment (positive release) or, rarely, be recalled where the analysis results become available while the product is still in transit to its initial (usually local) destination.

The typical actions if not yet shipped relate to doing a repeat analysis / re-sampling / parallel investigation into possible sources of contamination for the (hopefully) individual lot code with the detected Salmonella.

Can you clarify the specific situation ?.

Rgds / Charles.C

Dear Charles;


I have a question here, why Salmonella in raw meat should be absent ? why standards not keep a limit for finding salmonella in raw meat , while cooking step nothing will be found , salmonella will be destroied, even the person who have salmonella infection can be treated rapidly and recovered fast.

Please clarify this point for me , I think I asked on the same subject and sorry TatianaLC if I asked in your area , I am sure I and you will get answer from Charles.

Regards

Hygienic

[TatianaLC]

Dear Charles C.,

external lab detected Salmonella in a product which has already been dispatched. By 2073/2005 we sampled meat preparation which has 4 days shelf-life and while the analysis takes time the shelf-life expired, we have no product on stock and ther is no product on the market. All our meat preparations (and minced meat) have shelf-life from 4-5 days and we never wait for the result before shipment because it is not possible. Beside that I am sure that after proper usage (cooking) there is no Salmonella in the end product - we gave on the market raw meat preparations which has to be cooked before eating- and Hygienic extended my question ) Thank you!

What actions should I do beside: re-sampling, cleaning, dezinfection, temp.checking, training, there is no possible to sample raw meat because we used it all and we didn't spend it for any other meat preparation...

Sorry for my unclear English. I am trying hard...

regards!

[Charles.C]

Dear Tatiana,

Thks yr info. I think you are saying that the product which was put on the market has already all been sold ?.

I should say that I hv not worked in the chilled meat (eg beef, poultry) business so no direct experience of meat product problem.

I also am not familiar with the legislative requirements implemented in your country with respect to the general EC legislation which you mention. IMEX, any country may have a (slightly) different interpretation of the basic EC directives. My ignorance makes it difficult to offer specific advice.

However to try and give some examples, I have done some IT browsing regarding yr result to try and suggest how it might be interpreted from UK viewpoint (since UK info. quite well available on net).

General assessment criteria for yr product types are discussed here –
http://www.ukmeat.or...entCriteria.htm
and the linked page on corrective actions is here –
http://www.ukmeat.or...tiveActions.htm

A more specific Salmonella-oriented response is here -
http://www.ukmeat.or...islationFAQ.htm
(see qu.14 of FAQ sheet)

The word “may” in answer to qu.14 is possibly related to the fact that for UK, a derogation (eg exception/tolerance) existed regarding Salmonella detection in raw minced meat/preparations up to end of 2009 (see section 3.11 of pdf attachment below) however I assume this derogation has now definitely ended as per 2nd section of this link –
http://www.ukmeat.org/News.htm

 general guidance FBOs, EC 2073-2005, Micro.criteria.pdf   80.47KB   33 downloads

Note also that in UK, from memory, there is a difference in meaning between “withdraw” and “recall”, the latter being effective to the actual consumer level, the former to the retail level (I think).

The above example looks to indicate that if production is within the current UK control system, a positive detection will require a withdrawal/recall.
But as you can see from the above, your legislative situation may not be 100% the same.

I should repeat again that this is not my direct product experience area, other people welcome to comment / correct of course .

Rgds / Charles.C

@hygienic - perhaps you are over-simplifying a little. For example, aspects like degree of contamination, cross-contamination, use in intentionally undercooked hamburgers, different species potency, consumer skill, etc are also relevant.
(however it is also true that presence of Salmonella is not automatic rejection in various raw products, scheduled to be cooked, in some countries)(and also in many haccp plans )

One recent illustration -
http://www.nytimes.c...a-outbreak.html