15 replies to this topic

[Kerr]

I am working with a high street butcher who makes 4lb haslet (or meatloaf) cooked on the premises. The haslet cooling process is causing some concern with our Environmental Health Officer. The product is cooked to 80 centigrade over a period of 1.5-2 hours, then placed in the chiller and the temperature brought down from 60 to +5 degrees in 7 hours.

The EHO wants to see the temperature drop from 60 to +5 degrees in 4 hours or even better to +5 in 90 minutes.

Our references on the subject are the 'Cooling of large hams and similar bulk meats' a LACOTS publication from 1999. This document allows for a temperature drop from cooking to 5 degrees in 8 hours.

Does anyone have data or other guidance that would support the safety of this speed of cooling with this type of product.

The only other guidance I have found is generic material from local authorities that speaks of reducing cooked foods to 'room temperature' in 4 hours then down to +5 in 90 minutes but I am not convinced there is any science behind that.

My client's only other alternative is to remove these and similar products from his range.

[novice]

Hi Kerr,
No sure if this will help,

http://www.fsai.ie/W...set.aspx?id=746


good luck.
novice

[Kerr]

Thanks V much.

The FSAI is well known for producing good materials, I had not thought of them as a source, though I have much of their other material.

Cheers

K

Hi Kerr,
No sure if this will help,

http://www.fsai.ie/W...set.aspx?id=746


good luck.
novice

[Charles.C]

Dear Kerr,

Well, the EHO's interest may well be due to this quote from the UK, MIG book which i am sure you know well -

inadequate chilling is the greatest source of food poisoning due to cooked meat

Not a meat man myself but the (general) scientific aspect of yr query has come up on this forum before (somewhere). Not sure about FSA but the Americans have minutely analysed various typical products / cooling systems and argued over the results (especially the microbiological). I seem to recall that yr later (split stage) numbers are typical of their type of interpretation. Also from memory, the practical arguments ultimately revolved around the ability for a non-sophisticated chilling apparatus to actually achieve the time/temp limits which their theory demanded/justified. The conclusion/demonstration was that cobbled-together equipment usually failed. Primary links/documents are in the thread. I can probably find it if you are still interested.?

Rgds / Charles.C

[Katja]

Hello, is the meat salted at all or just cooked. Verify the water activity of the product after immediately after cooking, if it is low then you have some leverage and can go with slow-cooling. Your government should have some meat guidelines for this stuff . I am in canada and refer to the meat hygiene manual of procedures, specifically section 4.5 cooling of heat processed meat products. In the slow-cooling section specifies that the internal temperature must not remain between 49-4 degrees Celsius for more than 20 hours and does not remain between 49-20 degrees celsius for more than 2 hours. Rapid cooling says the temp must not remain between 54-27 for more than 2 hours nor from 54-4 fro more than 7 hours. These are an abbreviated version of our guidelines but the government should have established some limits as well. ASk your butcher where he got his method from.
good luck

[GMO]

I did find some sources which confirmed 4 hours was a sensible target when I worked in ready meals but no idea where they are now (sorry).

Now you could argue that 4 hours is too stringent, especially if you look at items like these:

http://www.redcar-cl...07?OpenDocument

However, haslet is normally cooked in fairly small loaf tins. The 4lb one you mention is basically twice the size of a domestic loaf tin so it's not huge. I would argue it would be possible to cool meat of this size quicker than in 7 hours. Is he using a blast chiller or a regular chiller? I would have thought it would be possible to cool down to room temperature without chilling in about 3 hours!

That said, 90 minutes is overkill IMO.

I found this document which suggests there is a retailer guide which recommends food should be cooled through the danger zone within 4 hours:

http://new.wales.gov...P/NCP.03244.pdf

Interestingly the EHO cannot demand it is cooled to 5 degrees, only 8 surely as the chill temperature (legally) in the UK is 8! Best practice is 5 but they cannot demand best practice.

To accellerate cooling is he doing everything possible? I was going to suggest removing from the tin but I suspect the tin will accellerate the cooling process as the metal will reduce in temperature very quickly. Does he have good airflow around the tins? Is the chiller operating correctly? Good airflow, low temperature, not overfilled? Should he look at producing in smaller loaf sizes?

[Kerr]

Hello, is the meat salted at all or just cooked. Verify the water activity of the product after immediately after cooking, if it is low then you have some leverage and can go with slow-cooling. Your government should have some meat guidelines for this stuff . I am in canada and refer to the meat hygiene manual of procedures, specifically section 4.5 cooling of heat processed meat products. In the slow-cooling section specifies that the internal temperature must not remain between 49-4 degrees Celsius for more than 20 hours and does not remain between 49-20 degrees celsius for more than 2 hours. Rapid cooling says the temp must not remain between 54-27 for more than 2 hours nor from 54-4 fro more than 7 hours. These are an abbreviated version of our guidelines but the government should have established some limits as well. ASk your butcher where he got his method from.
good luck

Thanks very much for your input. Those are some complicated cooling times! I have now got the UK Retail Guidelines that require the temperature to fall from 60C to 10C in 4 hours. That could be quite a push as we only have an air cooled chill store to work with. My client's method is simply what he thought was best.

We do have other advice for cooling large joints but I believe the EHO is going to insist on the 4 hour rule

[Kerr]

I did find some sources which confirmed 4 hours was a sensible target when I worked in ready meals but no idea where they are now (sorry).

Now you could argue that 4 hours is too stringent, especially if you look at items like these:

http://www.redcar-cl...07?OpenDocument

However, haslet is normally cooked in fairly small loaf tins. The 4lb one you mention is basically twice the size of a domestic loaf tin so it's not huge. I would argue it would be possible to cool meat of this size quicker than in 7 hours. Is he using a blast chiller or a regular chiller? I would have thought it would be possible to cool down to room temperature without chilling in about 3 hours!

That said, 90 minutes is overkill IMO.

I found this document which suggests there is a retailer guide which recommends food should be cooled through the danger zone within 4 hours:

http://new.wales.gov...P/NCP.03244.pdf

Interestingly the EHO cannot demand it is cooled to 5 degrees, only 8 surely as the chill temperature (legally) in the UK is 8! Best practice is 5 but they cannot demand best practice.

To accellerate cooling is he doing everything possible? I was going to suggest removing from the tin but I suspect the tin will accellerate the cooling process as the metal will reduce in temperature very quickly. Does he have good airflow around the tins? Is the chiller operating correctly? Good airflow, low temperature, not overfilled? Should he look at producing in smaller loaf sizes?

Thanks, I have found the reference now, it is from the Retail Guidelines (2009), although it is a direct quote from the much older (1998) Catering Guidelines. The LACOTS research (1999) was, I believe, carried out by Campden and refers to bulk joints rather than mixed products such as haslet anyway, the EHO discounts this research anyway and says that the Retail Guide rules.

You are right about the 5 degrees being preferred but not a legal requirement and I think we will have no problem agreeing a change there.

It is most likely that the butcher will drop the cooking process and simply buy in from a factory. We looked at smaller loaves, removing the meat early and chilling nthat way but in the end I think the home made product will have to be dropped.

[Kerr]

Dear Kerr,

Well, the EHO's interest may well be due to this quote from the UK, MIG book which i am sure you know well -



Not a meat man myself but the (general) scientific aspect of yr query has come up on this forum before (somewhere). Not sure about FSA but the Americans have minutely analysed various typical products / cooling systems and argued over the results (especially the microbiological). I seem to recall that yr later (split stage) numbers are typical of their type of interpretation. Also from memory, the practical arguments ultimately revolved around the ability for a non-sophisticated chilling apparatus to actually achieve the time/temp limits which their theory demanded/justified. The conclusion/demonstration was that cobbled-together equipment usually failed. Primary links/documents are in the thread. I can probably find it if you are still interested.?

Rgds / Charles.C

Thanks Charles,

Sorry to sound daft but what does MIG stand for?

And yes, we are in the 'cobbled together' arena! And if you have seen my recent replies to others on this thread, you will see that the home made product will probably be dropped

Cheers

Richard

[GMO]

Just humour me for a minute. Is the haslet baked or steamed? Just a daft idea, could it be cooked sous vide and then cooled in ice water?

Alternatively, has he looked at second hand equipment or hire equipment? Here's a hire place:

http://www.pkl.co.uk...ices/item47.asp

I think cooking a 4lb loaf but not having a blast chiller is an issue IMO. The contamination is likely to be greatest on the surface of meat joints so with a minced product it will be fully dispersed in the loaf making the cooking and cooling processes vital in controlling food safety. I hate to see small food manufacturers lose their businesses though because of food safety regulations or EHO demands.

[retep]

I guess the bigger questions would be is the equipment. If it was just a stand up cooler being used, It would make sense to drop the temperature or if need be, add an ice tray. The sous vide idea is good but may yield an undesired consistency depending on the fat of the mixture. Try the ice traying method if you are producing smaller batches.

[Charles.C]

Dear Kerr,

MIG is the FSA Meat Industry Guide however it is primarily aligned to process regulations on non-cooked product. I note that you hv unearthed FSA rules equivalent to the Irish link given earlier (maybe now also EC based although the FSA document mentioned in post#10 of below thread suggests their rules are in fact non-specific). A copy of MIG is attached below.

 MIG MEAT - fullversion.pdf   2.99MB   23 downloads

The thread I was thinking of in previous post is here –

http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__47720
( a lot of the background/theory is due USA, particularly in the period similar to GMO’s nice Campden link given earlier).

If you compare the UK/USA/Australian (see link in thread below) current requirements there are obviously a variety of interpretations. However one agreement does seem to be the conclusion in yr own post that the cooling requirements are “difficult” unless appropriate equipment is available. The US Food Code (see a2 link above thread) also lists some recommended, practical cooling methods although conveniently not mentioning the probable degree of difficulty AFAI could see.

There are 2 other (UK) threads here on related issues –

http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__36159

http://www.ifsqn.com...ndpost__p__7410

Rgds / Charles.C

[onsolution]

Thanks, I have found the reference now, it is from the Retail Guidelines (2009), although it is a direct quote from the much older (1998) Catering Guidelines. The LACOTS research (1999) was, I believe, carried out by Campden and refers to bulk joints rather than mixed products such as haslet anyway, the EHO discounts this research anyway and says that the Retail Guide rules.

You are right about the 5 degrees being preferred but not a legal requirement and I think we will have no problem agreeing a change there.

It is most likely that the butcher will drop the cooking process and simply buy in from a factory. We looked at smaller loaves, removing the meat early and chilling nthat way but in the end I think the home made product will have to be dropped.

In Australia we have the requirement that food must drop from 65° to 20° within 2 hours and 20° to 5° within 4 hours. I had one customer who did quite a bit of research into the cooling of various items (they were a catering company). One that I particularly remember was custard.

The outcomes were quite simple:
- Large square items had no chance of cooling at the required rate. In fact they were taking over 12 hours.
- Flatter, wider items with similar volume had a much better chance
- Flatter, wider items with reduced volume achieved it with ease

BUT, the temperature had to be about 2° or cooler. If the temperature was close to 5° then it is impossible to cool any item of significant volume within the time.

So before you give up, consider having a very cold cool room (or freezer), with good air flow, and consider the shape of the meatloaf. Anyone for a donut shaped meatloaf?

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
Shane

Edited by onsolution, 10 April 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[Tony-C]

I am working with a high street butcher who makes 4lb haslet (or meatloaf) cooked on the premises. The haslet cooling process is causing some concern with our Environmental Health Officer. The product is cooked to 80 centigrade over a period of 1.5-2 hours, then placed in the chiller and the temperature brought down from 60 to +5 degrees in 7 hours.

The EHO wants to see the temperature drop from 60 to +5 degrees in 4 hours or even better to +5 in 90 minutes.

Our references on the subject are the 'Cooling of large hams and similar bulk meats' a LACOTS publication from 1999. This document allows for a temperature drop from cooking to 5 degrees in 8 hours.

Does anyone have data or other guidance that would support the safety of this speed of cooling with this type of product.

The only other guidance I have found is generic material from local authorities that speaks of reducing cooked foods to 'room temperature' in 4 hours then down to +5 in 90 minutes but I am not convinced there is any science behind that.

My client's only other alternative is to remove these and similar products from his range.

Hi Kerr

I think you are along the right lines but should be aiming to cool to 8 degrees in 4 hours.

EC Regulation 852/2004 contains a requirement for the cooling of foodstuffs which doesn't help a lot
Annex II, Chapter IX, 6 states
Where foodstuffs are to be held or served at chilled temperatures they are to be cooled as quickly as possible following the heat-processing stage, or final preparation stage if no heat process is applied, to a temperature which does not result in a risk to health.
18. The cooling period for any food would not be regarded as unacceptable merely because other equipment, not present at the business, could have cooled the food quicker. The time taken to achieve cooling must be consistent with food safety. Cooling will often be a step that is critical to food safety.

Try your EHO with this from a different local government:

Guidance and Advice
It is good practice to cool hot food through the 'danger zone' (63oC to 8oC) in less than 4 hours. However, faster chilling i.e. cooling food within 1.5 hours, is strongly recommended if the chilled food is to be kept for several days.

Cooling Large Joints of Meat and Hams
If you cook large joints of meat or hams as part of your business, for example butchers, it will take longer for these to cool, even using some of the methods described above. Scientific research has shown that in these cases it is important to cool food down through the critical, higher temperatures as fast as possible, as it is at these temperatures that bacteria will grow and multiply most quickly.
Based on research, the suggested cooling times and temperatures can be found on the following link www.lacors.gov.uk/lacors/ContentDetails.aspx?authCode=5984175&id=3391

Good luck

Tony

Edited by Tony-C, 15 April 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[Charles.C]

Dear Tony,

Yr last link sent me to a log-in page ? Courtesy of the 1st link presumably.

Any idea if same information as the 10/09/1999 item previously posted by GMO ? (#6)

Rgds / Charles.C

[Simao Monteiro]

Food Code 2009:

3-501.14 Cooling.

• <li sizset="352" sizcache="5">(A) Cooked potentially hazardous food (time/temperature control for safety food) shall be cooled:
  • (1) Within 2 hours from 57ºC (135ºF) to 21ºC (70°F); and
  • (2) Within a total of 6 hours from 57ºC (135ºF) to 5ºC (41°F) or less.
• (B) Potentially hazardous food (time/temperature control for safety food) shall be cooled within 4 hours to 5^oC (41^oF) or less if prepared from ingredients at ambient temperature, such as reconstituted foods and canned tuna.
• © Except as specified under (D) of this section, a potentially hazardous food (time/temperature control for safety food) received in compliance with laws allowing a temperature above 5^oC (41^oF) during shipment from the supplier as specified in 3-202.11(B), shall be cooled within 4 hours to 5^oC (41^oF) or less.
• (D) Raw eggs shall be received as specified under 3-202.11© and immediately placed in refrigerated equipment that maintains an ambient air temperature of 7^oC (45^oF) or less.