4 replies to this topic

[Forest]

Hi Folks, I really hope that you can assist with my query as I'm a) new on this forum, & b) still a little unsure as to where the pitfalls may be in my HACCP plan.

Ok; firstly a little about me and what I do. I run Forest School, Bushcraft & Survival courses in UK woodland environments & school grounds & have recently registered my (new) company as a food company with the local EH team. Food ranges from cordial & water, packets of marshmallows to be toasted over an open fire (on a freshly cut & peeled stick), through to making bread & preparing game animals (purchased from registered game dealers), all of which are cooked either over an open fire (either stewed in a pot, fried on a griddle/paella pan, or just on a wooden spit (ie stick)), or cooked in a pit oven (Hangi).

I have plenty of certificates for what I do, but more relevant are the level 3 Managing HACCP in Catering & level 3 Award in Supervising Food Safely. So, as the sole employee of the limited company (and therefore Director) I need to write the HACCP document (principally for the local EH team to review and commence their inspection process, etc). I have looked at the various versions available (i.e. SFBB, Safe Catering, etc) and have plumped for the Safe Catering document as there is more for me to fill in, which given the fact that I don't make sandwiches in a tiled operation theatre is probably a good thing.

1st snag is that the document only comes in .pdf format and so far nothing has been able to convert it to an editable format and the local EH team don't have an editable version either. As such I can't upload it for your review & comments.

2nd snag is that ideally I should have running hot & cold water and a clean area to do the food preparation in. Given that these are a little thin on the ground in woodland environments I am proposing that the cooking is done at the camp fire (i.e. clean area), while the game animal preparation is done at a separate classroom area (i.e. non-clean area).

Does that sound reasonable so far?

"Food" is procured from supermarkets (glass jars of hot dog sausages & cooking sauces, bread, vegetables, rice, pasta, cordial, etc). Water comes from a domestic tap in regularly sterilised ex-MOD 20 litre water jerry cans, and game animals come from registered game dealers (as previously mentioned). The 'food' is purchased up to 1 week in advance of its consumption (the exception being cordial which tends to last longer; say 3-4 months). Water is usually used up during the course so has to be replenished (another domestic tap source), but if not, is replenished before the next course. Game animals (rabbits, trout, pigeons) are purchased from registered game dealers and are transported from their place of business in a large cool box (rated at 5 days cooling) and stored (domestic garage with fridge & freezer) in a cool environment (rabbits/pigeons) or in a fridge/freezer (rabbits/fish/pigeons) depending on whether they are to be used within a couple of days or stored for future use (purchased during seasons and stored for out of season courses). Appropriate numbers are then put in the cleaned cool box (with recording temperature data logger and cool blocks) which then stays in the woodland while the course runs. Students are given instruction on how to prepare the game animals (including use of plasters) and they are then cooked as noted before (not the students!). Students then return to wash hands under cold running water (water carrier with tap, operated by somebody with clean hands) using anti-bac soap. Drip dry, followed by anti-bac hand gel.

So, with that brief run through, where can you see holes in my HACCP document?

Thanks in advance!!

Chris

[Charles.C]

Dear Forest ,

Have 2 initial queries.

Is there a particular reason you wish to register as a food company ? I recall having seen examples of risk assessments filed (presumably for HSE requirements) for various outdoor organizations. I deduce food processing is not yr primary objective ?.

I’m not in UK but I would imagine that the EH organization had some immediate opinions on the implementation of your project ?. Did they accept yr concept of an “informal” processing / consumption area as feasible within the SFBB scope? Did they advise minimum requirements ?

The SFBB options (pdf) have previously been uploaded here and briefly discussed although, from memory, not appropriate to most of the posters here. I’m surprised editable forms were not available to you although I think they are anyway not that numerous or particularly complex ?.

I imagine from yr mentioned certificates that you well know one of the axioms of HACCP is to detect and achieve control of significant safety-related BCPA hazards, the latter for example deriving from raw materials, processing stages and environmental, etc contamination. The hygienic factors typically involve prerequisite functions / SOPs in formal HACCP. Presumably built-in to SFBB.

A second axiom is to validate / verify the proposed control measures / limits for significant hazards but perhaps these aspects are qualitatively auto-satisfied within the SFBB system, eg I noticed no mention of cooking thermometers in yr post.

Whether yr proposed area of activity / SFBB “Prerequisite Measures” can match ER’s expectation of a hygienically controllable environment (ie hazards) is presumably fundamental.
Similarly for control of processing aspects, including consumption.

No offence intended but the potential holes involving “control” are I think self-evident. Hence my initial queries.

Further comment may require your informing what kind of record filling is involved.

Maybe, hopefully, there is somebody here with direct knowledge on yr type of request ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[Forest]

Thanks for your response.

The UK is saturated with companies offering 'bushcraft' courses; there are more in the UK than there are in the US for example. There are three which are regarded as being 'the best', one of which I trained at and they are registered as a food company, hence my decision to follow in their footsteps.

I think from your posting, a meeting with the EH team should be convened so that I can further discuss it with them.

With regards to the temp probe; I have & use one (forgot to mention that).

Best regards

Chris

Dear Forest ,

Have 2 initial queries.

Is there a particular reason you wish to register as a food company ? I recall having seen examples of risk assessments filed (presumably for HSE requirements) for various outdoor organizations. I deduce food processing is not yr primary objective ?.

I’m not in UK but I would imagine that the EH organization had some immediate opinions on the implementation of your project ?. Did they accept yr concept of an “informal” processing / consumption area as feasible within the SFBB scope? Did they advise minimum requirements ?

The SFBB options (pdf) have previously been uploaded here and briefly discussed although, from memory, not appropriate to most of the posters here. I’m surprised editable forms were not available to you although I think they are anyway not that numerous or particularly complex ?.

I imagine from yr mentioned certificates that you well know one of the axioms of HACCP is to detect and achieve control of significant safety-related BCPA hazards, the latter for example deriving from raw materials, processing stages and environmental, etc contamination. The hygienic factors typically involve prerequisite functions / SOPs in formal HACCP. Presumably built-in to SFBB.

A second axiom is to validate / verify the proposed control measures / limits for significant hazards but perhaps these aspects are qualitatively auto-satisfied within the SFBB system, eg I noticed no mention of cooking thermometers in yr post.

Whether yr proposed area of activity / SFBB “Prerequisite Measures” can match ER’s expectation of a hygienically controllable environment (ie hazards) is presumably fundamental.
Similarly for control of processing aspects, including consumption.

No offence intended but the potential holes involving “control” are I think self-evident. Hence my initial queries.

Further comment may require your informing what kind of record filling is involved.

Maybe, hopefully, there is somebody here with direct knowledge on yr type of request ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[Tony-C]

Hi Folks,

1st snag is that the document only comes in .pdf format and so far nothing has been able to convert it to an editable format and the local EH team don't have an editable version either. As such I can't upload it for your review & comments.

Chris

Hi Chris

I have been able to convert the Safecater0705 form booklet, if you send me the relevant document and I'll try and convert it for you.

Had a quick look at your summary! and a few things came to mind, have you considered prevention of infected people doing cooking, utensils (segregation) & control of waste.

Regards,

Tony

[BarrieT]

Hi Forest

As an EHO, I have to say you seem to have most things covered, along with some of the other suggestions in this thread. I would strongly advise you to not use drip-drying of your hands, as bacteria love moist hands - I see no reason why you can't take some packs of paper towels or even kitchen roll?

I wouldn't bother with any of the FSA 'kits', as they will not be geared to this type of food production. You have the knowledge/training to produce your own HACCP, it seems to me. Just start by covering all the prerequisites (google will provide a list!), then tackle the important and critical control points, such as cold storage, cooking and, if to be used, cooling down/cold storage/reheating.

And, of course, ensure your local EHO is happy!

(Incidentally, it is a legal requirement in the UK for you to register with the local Council if you undertake a food business for more than a few occasions a year - which will apply to your operation, I think).

Good luck!!

Barrie