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Poll: How has your plant ruled on E Cigarettes? (41 member(s) have cast votes)

How has your plant ruled on E Cigarettes?

  1. Allowed their use in plant. (1 votes [2.44%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.44%

  2. Banned their use inside plant. (20 votes [48.78%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.78%

  3. Has not come up to the best of my knowledge. (18 votes [43.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 43.90%

  4. Management decided not to rule either way. (2 votes [4.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.88%

  5. They are illegal in my country so it doesn't matter to us. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:47 PM

(Update on 2/6/14 - Added 2 new studies on the NIH website from last time I posted this)

 

Hello,

My food plant is currently looking at the issue of Electronic Cigarettes / Vaporizers and if they should allow the use of them in the break room of the plant.

For those who are not aware an E Cigarette or Vaporizer has liquid nicotine and a few other things in it for the delivery such as:
PG: Propylene Glycol
VG: Vegetable Glycerin
PEG: Polyethylene Glycol

There is only one study that I have found on the subject that seems to be one that is unbiased, that is to say not sponsored by any tobacco advocacy group or one run by any institution that basically said "There is not enough information to say it is safe so it is unsafe."

There is no tobacco or combustion in the product and when one exhales they are exhaling water vapor.

Does anyone know of any real good studies on these products? They have been out for a number of years and I expected to find more. I wasn't sure the best forum to post this on so I decided to go with "Food Safety Talk". Obviously none of this would be allowed in GMP areas only break rooms and locker rooms for storage.

Please do not give opinions on this matter I am only interested in studies of fact and how your plants have ruled on these products if it has come up.

Here is the links to the studies I've found:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23033998 - The original study I linked that shows that the exhalation is not unsafe for other people.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23742112 - A study I can't read exceptionally well because it's in sciency

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23363041 - A study serum cotinine and lung function.


Edited by MerleW, 06 February 2014 - 12:52 PM.

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#2 cazyncymru

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:43 AM

Hello,

My food plant is currently looking at the issue of Electronic Cigarettes / Vaporizers and if they should allow the use of them in the break room of the plant.

For those who are not aware an E Cigarette or Vaporizer has liquid nicotine and a few other things in it for the delivery such as:
PG: Propylene Glycol
VG: Vegetable Glycerin
PEG: Polyethylene Glycol

There is only one study that I have found on the subject that seems to be one that is unbiased, that is to say not sponsored by any tobacco advocacy group or one run by any institution that basically said "There is not enough information to say it is safe so it is unsafe."

There is no tobacco or combustion in the product and when one exhales they are exhaling water vapor.

Does anyone know of any real good studies on these products? They have been out for a number of years and I expected to find more. I wasn't sure the best forum to post this on so I decided to go with "Food Safety Talk". Obviously none of this would be allowed in GMP areas only break rooms and locker rooms for storage.

Please do not give opinions on this matter I am only interested in studies of fact and how your plants have ruled on these products if it has come up.

Here is the link to the study I found:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23033998 - NIH Abstract
http://informahealth...378.2012.724728 - Study Site Thanks, Merle



Hi MerleW

We don't allow smoking on site. That would include electroic cigarettes. Mind you, i will admit, no-one has tried it here on site ..yet, so it will have to be something that i have to write into my personal hygiene procedure (add to the ever growing list of jobs to do!). I do have written that nicotine patches must be covered at all times and that if they lose one, they report it to the manager.

Caz x

#3 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:16 AM

If it's not going to be allowed you will definitely have to have it specifically written in because there is no smoke and the term coined is vaping instead of smoking. There is no one term that can cover cloves, cigarettes, and vaporizers that I can think of. If you say inhaling nicotine then cloves aren't out if you say smoke then vaporizers are not out.


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#4 Sharon (Dewsbury)

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

If it's not going to be allowed you will definitely have to have it specifically written in because there is no smoke and the term coined is vaping instead of smoking. There is no one term that can cover cloves, cigarettes, and vaporizers that I can think of. If you say inhaling nicotine then cloves aren't out if you say smoke then vaporizers are not out.


Hi ,
We have a policy statement on this saying NO we do not allow them in any areas other than the smoking shelter. We have based this on the below and several web articles we have read
1. Some look too like cigarettes and will confuse others into thinking it is a cigarette and that smoking is allowed. (in locker/canteen areas)
2. We have spent a lot of time getting the culture change to not allow or expect this or similar habits to be common place.
3. It can still be offensive and cause annoyance/ argument etc. because not everyone knows enough about them and feel (rightly or wrongly) at risk.
On the web there are articles from the British Medical Association and articles in the online new papers which are an interesting read.
Sharon

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#5 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

Hi ,
We have a policy statement on this saying NO we do not allow them in any areas other than the smoking shelter. We have based this on the below and several web articles we have read
1. Some look too like cigarettes and will confuse others into thinking it is a cigarette and that smoking is allowed. (in locker/canteen areas)
2. We have spent a lot of time getting the culture change to not allow or expect this or similar habits to be common place.
3. It can still be offensive and cause annoyance/ argument etc. because not everyone knows enough about them and feel (rightly or wrongly) at risk.
On the web there are articles from the British Medical Association and articles in the online new papers which are an interesting read.
Sharon


Very interesting answers.

The arguments I am basing my side on are less contamination being brought in to break/changing areas if people are not going outside to use them.

The only valid research I have seen has said that it is not unsafe to be around.

No adverse health effects have yet to be actually published so it's not any more dangerous, as far as we know, than soda, surgery snacks, unhealthy food and we allow those to be used/consumed in the factory break rooms.

I do see the point on E-Cigarettes, in particular, looking like a regular cigarette though most Vaporizers I have seen, including mine, do not look anything like one.

If you know of good research on it and know the links to them feel free to post them I can try to search for them but before when I did I mostly found garbage research.

Thanks,

Merle
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#6 cazyncymru

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:57 AM

Very interesting answers.

The arguments I am basing my side on are less contamination being brought in to break/changing areas if people are not going outside to use them.

The only valid research I have seen has said that it is not unsafe to be around.

No adverse health effects have yet to be actually published so it's not any more dangerous, as far as we know, than soda, surgery snacks, unhealthy food and we allow those to be used/consumed in the factory break rooms.

I do see the point on E-Cigarettes, in particular, looking like a regular cigarette though most Vaporizers I have seen, including mine, do not look anything like one.

If you know of good research on it and know the links to them feel free to post them I can try to search for them but before when I did I mostly found garbage research.

Thanks,

Merle



Hi Merle

I think where most of us are coming from is customer perception. Which is why we would stipulate that even electronic cigarettes should only be permitted in the same area as real cigarettes.

Caz x

#7 Marshenko

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:12 PM

It also seems more likely that people will spread airborne germs if they are allowed to start blowing their junk all over the place instead of breathing normally. Like it is generally preferred for someone who coughs or sneezes to bury their face in the crook of their elbow (or cover their mouths with their hands, ugh), having someone blow smoke/vapor is forcefully expelling air + whatever junk you've got in your mouth throughout the room.

Just a thought. IMO you just want to justify using yours without having to leave the building :biggrin:



#8 Simon

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:49 PM

I'm in agremeent with Marshenko and Caz. Sometimes management have to make a firm decision and not get into the scientific justifications with every Tom, Dick or Harry. It can be a decision based on pereception alone. The longer management sit on the fence the harder a "No" becomes. This question will be arising in every business. It's a good poll and debate Merle...so thank you.

Regards,
Simon


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#9 cazyncymru

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:51 PM

Merle

 

Not sure if you've seen this

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...health-22870301

 

Caz x



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#10 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:36 PM

No I hadn't thank you for posting it.  Feel free, anyone, to post studies and news articles about it.

 

It's interesting to see how different countries are moving on the subject. I haven't heard anything much from the US government at all yet.


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#11 Simon

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

They should really be classed as a medical device and be subject to the same controls and regulations.

Right now anyone can make one without any standards.

 

I have a friend, who has a friend, that was in on these early - he just sold his business to a large healthcare/pharma company for £40 million (just short of $63,000,000).

 

:gitane:

 

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#12 Jim E.

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:12 PM

little older post but thought I should place an update.  Saw a show recently where they are now being used for marijuana as well, now how do we control that?  Not sure if there is a scent that comes off these or not.

Further wew did have one employee start using them and she went to the designated smoking area to use, unfortunately the real smokers were there too and she went back to normal smoking.  Better to go cold turkey I think..

 

:happydance:



#13 Simon

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:45 PM

Hi Jim, these e-cigs are not supposed to be harmful and are cheaper than regular cigarettes, but in some way's they are more addictive as you don't break the hand to mouth action and puffing on a stick and they are loaded with (more) nicotine.  Many people go back to cigarettes and kids are starting on these and graduating to cigarettes.  I gave up (thankfully) 7 years ago using patches for a couple of week's...it is very, very difficult, but I was ready for the change.


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#14 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:11 PM

First of all... they can be used for more than just marijuana and if someone is working under the influence I'm sure you would treat it the same as if any of your other workers were using those drugs.  Fear should not drive intelligent use/allowance.

 

Secondly, Simon, I haven't seen one actual study that shows that Vaporizers/Ecigs are actually some evil gateway drug to cigarettes for children.  If anything I've seen studies on how people have quit using nicotine altogether using them.  I'm not sure why but for some reason I've been stepping down my nicotine level even though I don't care to quit.  I enjoy vaping.  Every once in a while I see some horrible news article with no related study that says that children are using Ecigs and then moving to cigarettes and I wonder why would they... cigarettes taste like crap, make you feel just as bad, and cost a lot more (at least in New York).  I tried to smoke a menthol just last week (because I wanted to see what it was like again) and I couldn't even inhale the first drag... threw the full pack away.  It amounted to paying $10 to feel good about using my vaporizer.

 

I also don't agree they should be classified as medical devices... cigarettes aren't medical devices and vaporizers are just a replacement for them.  You can put vicks vapor rub in a humidifier if you have really bad chest congestion and that's not a medical device. Vaporizers contain 4 chemicals rather than the 4000 chemicals (400 that are carcinogens) (reference: http://www.lung.org/...-cigarette.html), stuffed into a cigarette and you don't have to use it a certain amount of times like a cigarette rather than throwing some away (smoking an entire one so you don't waste a smoke).  You can use it as many pulls as you need then put it away.  It is nice where there is no up and down cycle like smoking because you can just take a pull whenever you want.

 

Interestingly enough I saw a news article about England and allowing them inside buildings I believe... I was going to post it on here when I saw it but I didn't.  I really think the stink about them was started by big tobacco who was losing millions and the government who is losing millions.  Of course now Big Tobacco, having seen the writing on the wall, started making their own ecigs because they know that they are going to lose this battle.  The government is losing tax money like they've never expected.  And vapers are healthier and saving money.

 

Personally I like the fact that I'm inhaling 4 much safer things than things like Acetone, ammonia, formaldehyde, tar, etc.  Does Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin belong in my lungs?  No... probably not.  But I feel 100X better than I used to and for that I thank my juice manufacturer.


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#15 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:26 PM

Oh and on the point that they are loaded with more nicotine:

 

You can order Ecigarettes with a variable amount of nicotine when you order.  Though those who don't know any better might just order the highest amount not knowing what the proper amount should be (that's what I did at first).

 

When you buy juice for a vaporizer you can tell the store what level of nicotine you want in it.  They use a calculator to determine the proper amount of the different substances you need for the finished product.  A good retailer will be able to tell a user the recommended level based on what type of cigarettes they regularly smoke and how often they smoke.  A chain smoker of reds will need a higher level than someone who smokes 10 "lights" a day.  You can also use it to lessen the amount of nicotine you use daily.  Right now I feel the need to step down from where I was and I've stepped down twice now. 

 

I don't make my own juice, yet, though I could seeing as I've worked in food quality and it would be pretty easy.  I just need to get the ingredients and the plastic syringes but I do like the flavors from my local shop and I like to support them as well.

 

So that point is not completely correct as well.  Someone might use more nicotine than if they smoked... but you can actually control the nicotine level if you'd like and the more you know the better they can be for you :spoton:

 

(just trying to educate people)


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#16 cazyncymru

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:55 PM

Interesting Merle, but you still aren't smoking one in my factory! :silly:



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#17 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 02:08 PM

Well you fly me to Wales and I'll make sure it's sitting in a car when I come in lol.

 

I always thought about checking out Wales my last name is supposed to welsh (though it was changed in the family history due to an error in recording it was changed to the English variant) never made it to England, Wales, Ireland (other than a 2 hour stop in an airport we couldn't leave), or Scotland like I wanted to.


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#18 cazyncymru

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 04:57 PM

At least you have realised that Wales, Scotland & Ireland are separate countries from England!

 

Seriously though, there are some beautiful parts in all 5 (if you count Southern Ireland) countries.

 

If you do come to Wales, and your within a spitting vicinity of me (West Wales) then let me know 

 

Caz x



#19 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:00 PM

Lol well... I recognize that there is different names but I honestly (until now) thought that wales was in fact actually part of England proper.  As for Ireland and Scotland I did know those were different entire countries.  I thought that Wales was a region in England (or Britain).

 

I will do that if I am ever in the area (which I probably won't be but you never know I have always wanted to go back to Croatia and England/Wales is in that direction)


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#20 cazyncymru

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:03 PM

We even have our own language in Wales, of which I am a fluent speaker.

 

I have toyed with the idea of writing our quality system in welsh, but reckoned that it would take an auditor a day just to translate my Quality Policy!

 

Caz x



#21 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:32 PM

I wanted to learn Gaelic once (I'm not sure which dialect it was)... bought a book and tape set but I'm not good at learning like that.


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#22 cazyncymru

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:50 AM

Well Merle

Before long you won't be able to smoke one in my factory, even if I let you!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-wales-26837682

 

Caz x



#23 fgjuadi

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:52 AM

We even have our own language in Wales, of which I am a fluent speaker.

 

I have toyed with the idea of writing our quality system in welsh, but reckoned that it would take an auditor a day just to translate my Quality Policy!

 

Caz x

Ha!  This would be a hilarious audit strategy. 

"My Quality manual and all of our documents are in Esperanto, that won't be a problem for you, will it?"

"So here's the section of my emergency plan with flashlights.  I promise."


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#24 That Guy

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 05:47 PM

I came across this a while back. It seems to me that there are very drastic differences and risks depending on the brand/source of the Vaping liquid. The market is growing and evolving faster than any regulatory agency can keep up with and scientific studies take time to complete.

 

https://www.roswellp...es-srnt-meeting


Chive On.


#25 Prudence

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 09:27 PM

If you want your employees to stop smoking - and I see people outside smoking in their whites - then giving them somewhere to vape that's warm and dry will be a huge incentive....with all the associated food safety benefits (not in thier whites !)

 

and to those who are concerned about exhaled mist - that is an indication of the amount of other people's exhaled breath that you inhale all the time - the only thing is, normally, you can't see what you're inhaling......

 

anyone who's bothered by this will be identified as the person in the corner of the canteen with a 3 metre exclusion zone around them!






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