43 replies to this topic

[kyle.mcc]

 

That may be quite a surprise to people buying Hummus. Is your product clearly lablled with an Almond allergy warning?

 

Regards,

 

Tony

It is a twist on hummus, We call it Yummus, it is made with almonds, oil, garlic, nutritional yeast, basalmic vinegar, salt, and some spices.

 

Yes we added the almond allergy warning on the label.

 

Best,

Kyle

[kyle.mcc]

Not sure what country your in, but are you allowed to call it Hummus? Hummus is Arabic for chickpea.

We are calling it Yummus. The reason is because people who taste it think that is it hummus however the ingredients are quite different. 

 

Best,

Kyle

[kyle.mcc]

Dear All,

 

Just for interest, here is some micro.data on (chickpea) hummus -

 

hummus - micro.spec.commercial hummus base -10702030-1.pdf

hummus - micro.data traditional (restaurant) and reference samples.png

 

Rgds / Charles.C

Charles,

 

Great! amazing reference, thank you very much for sharing!

 

Best,

Kyle

[SUSHIL]

Hello Mr Kyle,

                   Your product seems to me to be condiment. Yeast extracts are normally added to sauces for flavorings.For nutritional yeast powder to be free of live yeasts get certificate of analysis from manufacturer /or get it tested from outside lab.Since you are adding oil,salt and vinegar possibility of microbial growth is less in such acidic environment.Vinegar acts as preservative .what is the acidity of your product,if  acidity greater than 1.25% ,yeast cannot survive.

Oil should be added last ,after the vinegar is completely mixed with all the ingredients properly.

Check for pH , acidity. water activity (Aw) to control microbial growth.

[Tony-C]

Dear All,

 

Just for interest, here is some micro.data on (chickpea) hummus -

 

hummus - micro.spec.commercial hummus base -10702030-1.pdf

hummus - micro.data traditional (restaurant) and reference samples.png

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

Thank you Charles,

 

The commercial product is sterile long life product. Restaurant product will not be of the same microbiological quality or shelf life as fresh commercial.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[Charles.C]

Thank you Charles,

 

The commercial product is sterile long life product. Restaurant product will not be of the same microbiological quality or shelf life as fresh commercial.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

 

Hi Tony,

 

Must admit that, AFAIK, I have never seen / consumed / or (previously) studied hummus. There appear to exist a variety of  “commercially sterile” hummus-type products possibly due flexibility of terminology. Storage possibilities seem to vary as, I think, your prev. post implied, from simple chilled refrigeration, to, for example, at least 3 years in a “cool” place.

 

 I noticed this comment –

 

Hummus is one such traditional food native to the Eastern Mediterranean Region which  has  now  become  a  very  popular  food  of  choice  among  consumers  of  diverse backgrounds  all  over  the  world.  The  United  States  is  one  such  country  in  which commercially produced hummus is becoming a viable industry, but with this comes the challenges of shelf-life extension. Typically only a minimal heat treatment is applied in the  preparation  of  hummus  (except  for  the  boiling  of  the  chickpeas,  no  other  heat  treatment  is  applied)  (25).  Hence  most  commercially  produced  hummus  may  only  be considered as pseudo pasteurized products, because it is impossible to attain commercial sterility through this minimum thermal processing (14). As such there is the possibility of different  types  of  microorganisms  thriving  in  hummus  (a  high  water  activity  food), despite its low pH (mean pH of about 5.1) (24).

 hummus spoilage, et al..pdf   2.78MB   49 downloads

 

Frankly, I find a tolerance of < 500 cfu/g (prev. micro.spec.) somewhat difficult to reconcile with my own (canning) perception of  “commercial sterility”  despite the claimed (self-contradictory?) long “ambient” shelf life / absence of significant chemical hurdles other than pH...

 

However I also saw this, distinctly non-Codex, interpretation of  Commercial Sterility in one publication –

The characteristic of commercially sterile products is that they have been heat treated to eliminate all pathogenic organisms and to reduce spoilage organisms to a level where they will not produce a health hazard or reduce the quality and acceptability of a product.

 

I suppose this would offer more subjective opportunities for a product specification.

 

Regarding OP's Yummus (!), seems difficult to say much without more specific info, for example a process flow (HPP!?) and product specification would be nice. At least the aw looks low. Perhaps, for a 3yr, 37degC shelf life, it is “commercially sterile” already from a plate count POV. Yeast (as per Caz) looks much more problematic. Pathogens, who knows?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[cazyncymru]

I must reiterate, that whilst you are adding dead nutritional yeast to your product (I think the answer to your question is in the DEAD), a yeast count of 690 cfu/g at start of life is cause for concern(IMO).
I'm sure that , although what you are producing is not strictly hummus, the product will eventually start blowing, even at these low temperatures.
You don't say if you blast chill the finished, potted product. Don't forget you are introducing heat into the product during the process of mixing , this can be as much as 20 degrees. It will take time to reduce this temperature just using a conventional fridge as such.

Have you conducted a shelf life study as of yet. How many days did you get? You will need to do this even if you do got down the HPP route, even if only to have a bench mark figure or how will you know that HPP is right for the product.

You must look at testing for pathogens, as there has been a number of scares regarding both pathogens and aflatoxins in nuts that you will need to address for your HACCP

Caz

[cazyncymru]

Regarding OP's Yummus (!), seems difficult to say much without more specific info, for example a process flow (HPP!?) and product specification would be nice. At least the aw looks low. Perhaps, for a 3yr, 37degC shelf life, it is “commercially sterile” already from a plate count POV. Yeast (as per Caz) looks much more problematic. Pathogens, who knows?
 
Rgds / Charles.C

HPP - it's a Hiperbaric chamber that is similar to that used for divers who have the bends. It works by , to put it crudely, blowing up the cell walls of bacteria, without affecting the composition of the food. It's the next big thing.

http://www.hiperbaric.com/en

Caz x

[dshapos]

Hi Kyle,

 

It is possible to bring the counts down with citric acid, but use caution, as it dramatically alters the flavor.  Also, when cleaning, check your needed contact times on the soaps.  We found that we needed a 5 minute contact time with the foamer we're using.

 

That said, we also use a 3rd party ISO lab for testing. If you're expanding, this helps with the credibility and reliability issue with your labs.  I understand the issue with turnaround, and have had similar problems with other labs.  This one has a great turnaround time (2days) and free shipping on samples....www.biotrax.net  BioTrax   716-651-0146

 

Hope this helps,

Debbie

[Charles.C]

HPP - it's a Hiperbaric chamber that is similar to that used for divers who have the bends. It works by , to put it crudely, blowing up the cell walls of bacteria, without affecting the composition of the food. It's the next big thing.

http://www.hiperbaric.com/en

Caz x

 

Thks Caz. (it looks like Hiperbaric have created a new adjective. Neat name.)

 

Rgds / Charles

[kyle.mcc]

Hello Mr Kyle,

                   Your product seems to me to be condiment. Yeast extracts are normally added to sauces for flavorings.For nutritional yeast powder to be free of live yeasts get certificate of analysis from manufacturer /or get it tested from outside lab.Since you are adding oil,salt and vinegar possibility of microbial growth is less in such acidic environment.Vinegar acts as preservative .what is the acidity of your product,if  acidity greater than 1.25% ,yeast cannot survive.

Oil should be added last ,after the vinegar is completely mixed with all the ingredients properly.

Check for pH , acidity. water activity (Aw) to control microbial growth.

SUSHIL,

 

Thank you for your response. Good question, I checked out the CoA on the yeast counts for nutritional yeast by RedStar and they are <10 CFU

I ordered the products to test Ph. It should be here in 2-4 days. I will post my results. Thou the amount of vinegar in the product is <1%

 

Best,

Kyle

[kyle.mcc]

Hello Mr Kyle,

                   Your product seems to me to be condiment. Yeast extracts are normally added to sauces for flavorings.For nutritional yeast powder to be free of live yeasts get certificate of analysis from manufacturer /or get it tested from outside lab.Since you are adding oil,salt and vinegar possibility of microbial growth is less in such acidic environment.Vinegar acts as preservative .what is the acidity of your product,if  acidity greater than 1.25% ,yeast cannot survive.

Oil should be added last ,after the vinegar is completely mixed with all the ingredients properly.

Check for pH , acidity. water activity (Aw) to control microbial growth.

Attached is the Lab Tests from the nutritional yeast for all to view.

 

Best,

Kyle

[kyle.mcc]

Hi Tony,

 

Must admit that, AFAIK, I have never seen / consumed / or (previously) studied hummus. There appear to exist a variety of  “commercially sterile” hummus-type products possibly due flexibility of terminology. Storage possibilities seem to vary as, I think, your prev. post implied, from simple chilled refrigeration, to, for example, at least 3 years in a “cool” place.

 

 I noticed this comment –

 

hummus spoilage, et al..pdf

 

Frankly, I find a tolerance of < 500 cfu/g (prev. micro.spec.) somewhat difficult to reconcile with my own (canning) perception of  “commercial sterility”  despite the claimed (self-contradictory?) long “ambient” shelf life / absence of significant chemical hurdles other than pH...

 

However I also saw this, distinctly non-Codex, interpretation of  Commercial Sterility in one publication –

I suppose this would offer more subjective opportunities for a product specification.

 

Regarding OP's Yummus (!), seems difficult to say much without more specific info, for example a process flow (HPP!?) and product specification would be nice. At least the aw looks low. Perhaps, for a 3yr, 37degC shelf life, it is “commercially sterile” already from a plate count POV. Yeast (as per Caz) looks much more problematic. Pathogens, who knows?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

Great info thanks! once I get the test results from the HPP I will post them. That wont be for at least 2 months :-/

 

Best,

Kyle

[kyle.mcc]

Hi Kyle,

 

It is possible to bring the counts down with citric acid, but use caution, as it dramatically alters the flavor.  Also, when cleaning, check your needed contact times on the soaps.  We found that we needed a 5 minute contact time with the foamer we're using.

 

That said, we also use a 3rd party ISO lab for testing. If you're expanding, this helps with the credibility and reliability issue with your labs.  I understand the issue with turnaround, and have had similar problems with other labs.  This one has a great turnaround time (2days) and free shipping on samples....www.biotrax.net  BioTrax   716-651-0146

 

Hope this helps,

Debbie

Debbie,

 

Thank you very much! Thank helps a lot. Great tip

 

:-D

 

Best,.

Kyle

[kyle.mcc]

I must reiterate, that whilst you are adding dead nutritional yeast to your product (I think the answer to your question is in the DEAD), a yeast count of 690 cfu/g at start of life is cause for concern(IMO).
I'm sure that , although what you are producing is not strictly hummus, the product will eventually start blowing, even at these low temperatures.
You don't say if you blast chill the finished, potted product. Don't forget you are introducing heat into the product during the process of mixing , this can be as much as 20 degrees. It will take time to reduce this temperature just using a conventional fridge as such.

Have you conducted a shelf life study as of yet. How many days did you get? You will need to do this even if you do got down the HPP route, even if only to have a bench mark figure or how will you know that HPP is right for the product.

You must look at testing for pathogens, as there has been a number of scares regarding both pathogens and aflatoxins in nuts that you will need to address for your HACCP

Caz

I posted the yeast lab tests. I believe it must be my lab that needs more cleaning. I am looking at getting a chemical from Madison Chemical called Madison 75. It kills basically everything.

 

Best,

Kyle

[bibi]

Hi Kyle

 

I agree with Cazy and Sushil we have producing hummus for the last 10 years.

My advise is to concentate more on your prerequisite program to have a robust haccp system  and to not to your end product testing if is not a must from your customer and depending on the volume you said 2000?.

For us we are cooking our chick peas,we use citric acid,PH<4.4,

our trend analysis is less than 1500 as TVC 20 entro never Sal,Ecoli or Listeria Mono.I do not a exact figure of yeast and moulds

daily release of process machineries by ATP(rapid method  from hygiena)

scheduled plan to send to accredited lab of swabbing.raw ingredients.water testing,and finished products.

All in my opinion  extra expenses  for setting the lab  will not enough if you do not have a robust haccp system and a good training program

BIBI 

[Charles.C]

Dear bibi,

 

Thks yr input. I noticed only one more post to reach 100.

 

Do note that the hummus (Yummus) under discussion does not use chickpeas, ie - 

it is made with almonds, oil, garlic, nutritional yeast, basalmic vinegar, salt, and some spices.

(the almond are pasteurised <100cfu /g)

 

AFAIK, the product is intended to be "long-life". Could you inform as to the typical shelf life of yr product (presumably chilled storage).?

 

i am little surprised you never check Y&M ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Tony-C]

Dear bibi,

 

 

Do note that the hummus (Yummus) under discussion does not use chickpeas

 

i am little surprised you never check Y&M ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

Indeed, indeed

 

Also product is closer to Marzipan than Hummus.

[SUSHIL]

Hello Mr kyle,

    What is the cost of HPP machine in which you will be processing your Yummus for extended shelflife and microbial control,will it justify the cost/profitability/economics of your product ( .i.e.you  sell roughly 2,000 units per week through farmers markets)