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CaliforniaFS

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:17 PM

Hello all,

 

We are in the process of moving to a new site. Very exciting.

I took note that the restrooms for the production workers have hot air driers. I've never worked at a location with a hot air dryer in means to dry hands after washing. We are located in the USA and FDA permits the use, and with PrimusGFS it is permitted but with this statement.

 

"Single use paper towels should be used and units properly located; hot air driers are acceptable if properly located (hot air driers should not be located within production areas since they create aerosols). "
 
The bathrooms are located in the hallway of the production area, with a door. Do you think that is acceptable?
 
Do any of you have hot air driers in place of paper towels?
 
 
 
 


HACCP Mentor

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:58 AM

I am a paper towel girl - http://www.haccpment...r-paper-towels/



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CaliforniaFS

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:53 PM

Thank you for the response, it is appreciated. 



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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:24 PM

I too like paper towels but have seen facilities with the hot air dryers. Sounds like the door should provide a barrier to any aerosols and be acceptable.


Know this is off topic but how did your water in Mexico turn out?


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CaliforniaFS

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:02 PM

Hi Snooki,

 

It was restested and turned out with negative presence of coliform. They tested the water from the well.



Snookie

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:40 PM

So it all worked out. That's great.


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Charles.C

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 02:26 AM

Dear California,

 

I don't like to disturb you but there has previously been not negligible discussion in the literature and on this forum regarding hot-air driers.

 

This is the (pathogenic et al.) microbial background to the comment on aerosols you mentioned earlier.

 

From memory,  one significant risk factor is related to the internal design of the "apparatus" / intervals between cleaning.

 

You might try a little searching on this forum / google.

 

From a queuing aspect only, I hope you have sufficient numbers of the units also.

 

i personally find them a major source of frustration in restaurants etc. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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George @ Safefood 360°

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 04:07 PM

Has anyone come across the 'Air Blade' hand driers? I think these are super efficient at getting hands dry in quick time. I was always on the side of the paper towel team but these have made me question my loyalties. If I was certain that there was no specific risks to food safety I would be ardent supporter of their use. 

 

George



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Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:08 PM

I have a mix of towels and air dryers. All the air dryers I have are high output and dry hands in probably 15 seconds or so. None are located in areas where, as Charles rightly points out, pathogens could be strewn about. 

 

My advice would be air dryers in restrooms and other enclosed spaces, and towel dispensers on the floor.

 

Marshall



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Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:11 PM

George,

 

Dyson has a line of dryers that are probably what you mentioned. As efficient as they are, I would not want them in a production area. Enclosed restrooms or breakrooms are one thing. Out on the floor? I think not.

 

Marshall



George @ Safefood 360°

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 02:52 PM

Marshell,

 

Of course. I had the restrooms in mind, not production rooms. You are correct they are the Dyson units and they are an innovative development on the traditional air blow hand units. As we know the drying stage of hand washing is as important as time, temperature and soap. What I like is they dry quickly and effectively which in the context of impatient workers under pressure to be on the job they make a lot of sense where aerosols are not an issue.

 

George



CaliforniaFS

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 03:24 PM

Marshell,

 

Of course. I had the restrooms in mind, not production rooms. You are correct they are the Dyson units and they are an innovative development on the traditional air blow hand units. As we know the drying stage of hand washing is as important as time, temperature and soap. What I like is they dry quickly and effectively which in the context of impatient workers under pressure to be on the job they make a lot of sense where aerosols are not an issue.

 

George

Hi George,

 

The only issue I have with these dryers are the water that collects that drips down. Not sure if you have tried one, I have quite a few times as they are at my gym and a club store I shop at. I would think the water that collects would cause a problem.



CaliforniaFS

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 03:26 PM

Dear California,

 

I don't like to disturb you but there has previously been not negligible discussion in the literature and on this forum regarding hot-air driers.

 

This is the (pathogenic et al.) microbial background to the comment on aerosols you mentioned earlier.

 

From memory,  one significant risk factor is related to the internal design of the "apparatus" / intervals between cleaning.

 

You might try a little searching on this forum / google.

 

From a queuing aspect only, I hope you have sufficient numbers of the units also.

 

i personally find them a major source of frustration in restaurants etc. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C

Thank you!!

I agree, I just need some opinions so that maybe I can encourage them to be changed out to traditional paper towels.



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Posted 25 November 2013 - 08:42 PM

Do you watch Mythbusters? They tested which way is more hygienic, and paper towels are much better at controlling bacteria. Air dryers spread the bacteria throughout the room. Not only that, the warm air is "good" for the bacteria!

 

As long as the personnel are washing their hands and drying using paper towels on entry into the production floor, this should not be a problem in the restrooms.



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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:49 PM

The studies I have read suggest that air dryers are at best adequate, and at worst introduce harmful bacteria to hands and clothes and the area in which they are used. The first attachment is a survey conducted by the Mayo clinic of 12 separate studies. the second cites a study by the University of Westminster which indicates that 100% dryers tested with 6 species of enterobacteria had the bacteria present.

I have not come across the new jet/blade dryers. My worry with the dryers is the loss of friction that comes when drying with towels and the positive effect friction has in removing bacteria.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3538484/

http://www.kelford.b...aper Towels.pdf



moskito

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 03:38 PM

Hello,

 

we are not using hot air dryers anymore. We are not using dyson dryers in the hygiene area, but outside for environmental reasons.

 

Rgds

moskito



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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:30 PM

Hello,

 

we are not using hot air dryers anymore. We are not using dyson dryers in the hygiene area, but outside for environmental reasons.

 

Rgds

moskito

 

Why moskito, because of high energy use?


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moskito

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 07:14 PM

Why moskito, because of high energy use?

Hi Simon,

 

we have switched from hot air dryers and paper towels in all staff and production buildings (outside hygiene area) to dyson for energy reasons, waste and cost reduction. In hygiene areas we are still using paper towels. Data I have seen for Dyson or created by ourselfs gave the indication, not to use this equipment in hygiene areas. But I never got data from Dyson supporting the hygenic properties (-> NSF and Campden mentioned, but...) )(on several requests !!!). We are using Dyson in production buildings (not hygiene) with special modifications only.

 

Rgds

moskito



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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:50 PM

Dear all

 

Thanks for you r input. I was using paper towel, but there come an argument between me and my boss saying we should not use any of paper towels nor dryers.

 

so really now I am in dynamic where I am really worried that workers might end up using PPE for drying hands. What's your opinion is this acceptable?


Regards

Ruhama Thooko

Quality Assurance Coordinator

Highlands Trout (Pty) Ltd

Jehova Jire

 


Charles.C

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:49 PM

Dear ruhama,

 

Assuming yr boss is a reasonably logical human, the appropriate response is to provide a scientific validation. I have no doubt that  there are numerous reference sources available on the net. And probably on this forum.

 

If yr boss is unwilling to even consider/rebut such proposals you may have a career decision to make. Or simply, mentally, classify yr boss as just another ignorant idiot, "grin and bear it" and think about the next pay-day. You will definitely not be alone. :biggrin:

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

PS - i suppose one "logical" response for subsequent auditors who may query yr unusual drying procedure is that it's "Company Policy". :smile:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 03 April 2014 - 05:50 PM

I am using this hand dryer which has proven claim to have antimicrobial properties.

 

I also monitor my air quality from the dryer once in month and find satisfactory. As per their website : http://www.americand...rs/cold-plasma/

 

 

WHY JUST DRY YOUR HANDS WHEN YOU CAN
ALSO SANITIZE AND KILL GERMS?
cpc_logo.png
Cold Plasma Clean™ technology (CPC)

CPC kills germs naturally while drying hands with warm air. Cold Plasma Clean technology was developed by American Dryer’s team of engineers to create the most hygienic method of hand drying ever. Cold Plasma Clean technology goes way beyond HEPA filtration, which simply trap mold and germs inside the dryer. HEPA does not sanitize your hands or kill germs. CPC technology is a solid-state, maintenance-free solution. There are no expensive filters, chemicals or labor.

What is CPC and how does it work?

Cold plasma or bipolar ionization is nature’s way of cleaning the air and killing germs. High levels of ionization are found in the fresh air breeze off the ocean or on top of a mountain. CPC technology is natural and safe.

The Cold Plasma Generator inside the eXtremeAir®, uses steady state positive and negative discharge points to split water molecules in the air into oppositely charged hydrogen and oxygen ions. These ions in turn break down gases to harmless compounds commonly found in the atmosphere.

Air is made up of millions of molecules, including harmful gases, fibers, mold, bacteria and viruses. CPC technology breaks down harmful pathogens into simple, safe, naturally occurring molecules.

Cold plasma kills E. coil, C. diff, MRSA, Staph, TB and more naturally, without chemicals.

 

Attached Files


Edited by mapry2, 03 April 2014 - 05:51 PM.


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Charles.C

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:55 PM

Dear mapry,

 

I hope you micro-analyse samples from the inside. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:25 PM

If employees open the door with their hands after using the dryer, you might have another source of contamination. I may be taking this to extreme, but it is always better to put a handwashing and hand drying station on the production floor by the entrance. just a suggestion.



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Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:00 PM

Hi All,

 

Quite a hot topic this one.

 

Approximately 50% of the population are natural Staph aureus carriers. When we wash our hands this action removes the bacteria and the paper towels obviously dries them. With hot air dryers however after you have removed all of the bacteria from your hands through washing, the hot air does dry them however the heat also opens the pores of your skin and can release this pathogen. 

 

In the UK, the National Health Service conducted many studies on this:

 

http://www.nhs.uk/ne...nd-dryers.aspx 

 

Thanks

 

Simon



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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:51 PM

Hi All,

 

Quite a hot topic this one.

 

Approximately 50% of the population are natural Staph aureus carriers. When we wash our hands this action removes the bacteria and the paper towels obviously dries them. With hot air dryers however after you have removed all of the bacteria from your hands through washing, the hot air does dry them however the heat also opens the pores of your skin and can release this pathogen. 

 

In the UK, the National Health Service conducted many studies on this:

 

http://www.nhs.uk/ne...nd-dryers.aspx 

 

Thanks

 

Simon

Ugh, that second to last sentence was too much.  I have Staph in my skin pores.  Eeeewww its so grosss get it off!  Unclean!

I'll never eat again.


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