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#1 jwalter007

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:16 PM

I have started noticing a trend with my micros.

I blend together various raw material in dry powder form to create a protein blend product.

I usually run 2 product flavors back to back before cleaning & sani.

The products are the same with the exception of a different natural flavor component. the first is always vanilla & the second would be a flavored version.

 

After my product run I clean my ribbon blender with hot water in a high pressure sprayer & a soap solution. It air drys and remains in that state for a couple of day until the next run. Before the run I clean the blender with steam then spray with a quat solution at 250ppm.

 

I normally have good mold & yeast levels at <10. 

However, the last few runs there have been an increase in mold count(one case 30 & another 100) for the first batch.  while the second batch would come back <10.

 

I did an ATP swab test before the batch that jumped up to 30.

The results were pre sterilize: almost 4K RLU. Post sterilize: 22 RLU  using a 3M clean-trace luminometer which I had recently calibrated.

Any ideas on what might be happening and what I can try to remedy the situation?

thanks

 

 

 



#2 Kelly S

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 10:02 PM

Is it possible its ingredient related? 


“Will this be on the test?" "Yeah, about the test. The test will measure whether you are an informed, engaged, and productive citizen of the world, and it will take place in schools and bars and hospitals and dorm rooms and in places of worship. You will be tested on first dates, in job interviews, while watching football, and while scrolling through your Twitter feed. The test will judge your ability to think about things other than celebrity marriages, whether you’ll be easily persuaded by empty political rhetoric, and whether you’ll be able to place your life and your community in a broader context. The test will last your entire life, and it will be comprised of the millions of decisions, that when taken together, make your life yours. And everything — EVERYTHING — will be on it.”

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#3 Charles.C

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 11:32 PM

Is it possible its ingredient related? 

 

Precisely IMO.

 

The OP and system looks potentially (but not inevitably) analogous  to the APC oscillations previously reported  here -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...uct/#entry84229

 

Many of the suggestions made there will repeat again.

 

Notably -  - more data/information  needed. :smile:

 

I couldn't find any info. on the typical product specs in above link ? Max Y&M in the "Xhundreds" ?

 

Typical suspects - Red Herrings,  (Unobvious) Blunders, inputs, cleaning, people,environment, sampling, lab.procedure

 

ATP data (and particularly trends again) is a valuable tool  but IMO micro is micro. :smile:

 

Regardless of data cautions above, things can and do go wrong, it's good to be forewarned. i commend yr investigative tendencies. :thumbup:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#4 John Moreton

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 07:54 AM

Finally ! some one else that runs a powder blend. :spoton:

We pretty much do the same product or multiples of. however we do not use water to clean with, we simple air pressure of the excess and then use an isopropyl alcohol to wipe clean. 

 

So far we have never had any Micro test results fail or rise above <10 when validating the cleaning. 

 

From your post I am assuming it is the finished product you are testing that has some different results, I would guess at this point it is the raw material you are using, perhaps have the Raw Mats micro tested before blending.



#5 jwalter007

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:55 AM

Hey guys. thanks for responding.

We are not a large enough company to run micros on our incoming raw materials. As much as I would like to and plan to get to that point in the future, right now we must go by our CofAs. We do not store raw materials for any length of time, so I doubt they would become contaminated in our small facility. I suppose it is possible and maybe likely that somewhere along the path from the supplier or at the supplier.

John - You can you elaborate on your cleaning process. I recently spoke to another company who makes tea & they told me they used a vac system then isopropyl alcohol. Is there a specific name for that type of system or can you provide the mfg or something that I can use to find more info about it.

thanks.



#6 John Moreton

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 01:27 PM

Hi

 

Its a little tricky, its not so much as using a pre established system, however it is about finding what works for you and your process and then validating it. ( Validation is key imo)  there may be 101 ways to choose how you clean down but if when you come to validate the cleaning it fails then you either need to look at what went wrong or what you need to change. personally we run 1 product and then do a full clean down before we run another product.

 

We are the same we primarily rely on the COA and we do not hold material for any length of time. we do however take random samples of delivered powder and send these away for external testing...relatively cheap really. then trend your results to prove your decision to sample small amounts (Untill you are a big enough company that you can test your self)...you may be surprised where contamination can come from

 

Write a risk assessment as to why you only send away a limited amount of samples away ie

 

Low water activity

Supplier approval ensures relatively safe results

COA / COC

Trend analysis



#7 jwalter007

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 01:40 PM

I think I will start sending samples out to check against the supplied CofAs.

Im still interested in the thr dry cleaning method your using. I dont like using water. I originally tried using compressed air in the ribbon blender, but you can probably image that it blew everywhere. I though about having a thin stainless steel top made that had a place to connect air which would force any leftover powder out of the bottom. However, I doubt that would work. I also thought about vacuum but have no idea about what type of filtration system would be needed. Any info you can provide about yours would help.

 

To the original post, one thing I should have mentioned and the reason I was thinking it was my cleaning procedure at fault is that the second of the 2 back to back runs looks like its been coming out "cleaner" than the first. It make me think that the first run is actually cleaning the machine. Any thoughts on that?

thanks



#8 MWidra

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:10 PM

We manufacture cellulose fibers for food products.  We use no water to clean our equipment, and vacuum it out because blowing it out just makes dust.  Then we sanitize with a 100ppm bleach fine spray, which is allowed to dry.  After the sanitizing, we do an immediate test for mold ( IMS Laboratory Instant Mold Test Kit) which gives a color change for the presence of  yeast or mold.  For us, it is a verification of the sanitizing, and not an identification of the species.  If it turns color, we sanitize again, and then use the equipment right afterwards to prevent contamination.

 

Mold is so easy to introduce into a product, the spores are always around somewhere.  They will proliferate any place that it is moist and cool, which would occur if you clean by washing, then litting it sit.  Mold needs very little to eat, think of your bathroom grout.

 

I suggest that you try out a dry cleaning protocol with some kind of sanitization that evaporates.  You should find your mold counts reducing.

 

It's just the start of the mold season, the summer has the highest mold spore counts of any part of the year.

 

I agree, your first run is doing the cleaning for you.

 

Martha


"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing:  the last of the human freedoms--to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."  Viktor E. Frankl

 

"Life's like a movie, write your own ending."  The Muppets


#9 MWidra

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:12 PM

, then litting it sit. 

Then LETTING it sit.


"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing:  the last of the human freedoms--to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."  Viktor E. Frankl

 

"Life's like a movie, write your own ending."  The Muppets


#10 jwalter007

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 12:03 PM

After reading this thread, I began to research dry vacuum systems. I had it in my head that these would be an elaborate maze of pipes installed to some type of central system with filtration. However, my search has yielded mobile type industrial shop vacs that would roll into the location of the machine.

Is that what you guys are using?

If so, is there any concern about the exhaust output or are these filtered enough.

 

Also, MWidra why are you using bleach and not Quat?

Jason



#11 RG3

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 04:39 PM

Do you use a manual hand pump to pump out the vanilla from a barrel? If so, how often does that pump get cleaned since you only use it one your first batch and sits until the next day or so?



#12 jwalter007

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 05:08 PM

RG3 - we use a powdered vanilla product from Lochhead mfg.



#13 MWidra

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 06:33 PM

 

 

Also, MWidra why are you using bleach and not Quat?

Jason

Bleach evaporates and leaves no toxic residue.  We spray this on food contact surfaces so we don't have to perform a rinse.  A very neat system.

 

Martha


"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing:  the last of the human freedoms--to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."  Viktor E. Frankl

 

"Life's like a movie, write your own ending."  The Muppets


#14 MWidra

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 06:39 PM

However, my search has yielded mobile type industrial shop vacs that would roll into the location of the machine.

Is that what you guys are using?

 

Jason

Yes, we have been using this.  There is a spectrum of filters available, so you should select the one that will remove your particles.

 

Martha


"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing:  the last of the human freedoms--to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."  Viktor E. Frankl

 

"Life's like a movie, write your own ending."  The Muppets


#15 Charles.C

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 07:07 PM

Hi Martha,

 

"Bleach" = hydrogen peroxide ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#16 MWidra

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 07:37 PM

Hi Martha,

 

"Bleach" = hydrogen peroxide ?

No, Sodium hypochlorite.  It's commonly called "bleach."  What is it called in other countries?

 

http://en.wikipedia....um_hypochlorite

 

Martha


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"Life's like a movie, write your own ending."  The Muppets


#17 Charles.C

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 08:35 PM

No, Sodium hypochlorite.  It's commonly called "bleach."  What is it called in other countries?

 

http://en.wikipedia....um_hypochlorite

 

Martha

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach

 

it's a sizeable family  :smile:

 

Like you i think  of  NaOCl ( or the Ca form) but i was a bit surprised you could get it in a suitably pure form so i wondered. As i recall it normally comes with other things to help to stabilise. Like as this spec - 

http://hillbrothers....m-hypochlorite/

 

I have used it in Production as a food "sanitizer"  but in a modified form to give a stable solid.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#18 MWidra

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 09:33 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach

 

it's a sizeable family  :smile:

 

Like you i think  of  NaOCl ( or the Ca form) but i was a bit surprised you could get it in a suitably pure form so i wondered. As i recall it normally comes with other things to help to stabilise. Like as this spec - 

http://hillbrothers....m-hypochlorite/

 

I have used it in Production as a food "sanitizer"  but in a modified form to give a stable solid.

Yes, it is a sizeable family, but as it says, " Chlorine is the basis for the most commonly used bleaches, for example, the solution of sodium hypochlorite, which is so ubiquitous that most simply call it "bleach" ..."

 

I think of H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) as a bleach only for hair, as in "bleached blonde."

 

We use Clorox brand liquid bleach, as we can trust the concentration of the components.  There is a very small amount of stabilizers, but inconsequential.

 

EPA regs for this:

 

FOR SANITIZING SOLUTIONS FOR EQUIPMENT AND UTENSILS

It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.

This product is authorized for use as a sanitizing solution in official establishments operating under the USDA meat, poultry, shell egg grading and

egg products inspection programs.

Before using this product, food products and packaging materials must be removed from the room or kept protected.

Before they are treated with a bleach solution, the food processing equipment and utensils must be thoroughly washed and then rinsed with clear,

cold water.

The bleach solution used for sanitizing must not exceed 200 ppm (parts per million) available chlorine. (Use chlorine test strips to adjust to 200

ppm available chlorine.) The bleach solution must be applied by spraying, soaking or scrubbing. Treated surfaces must remain wet for at least 2

-or- two min[utes].

A potable water rinse is not required, provided the equipment and utensils are adequately drained before they come into contact with food. Little or

no residue must remain to adulterate or otherwise affect edible products.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

We buy test strips to validate the concentration, made by LaMotte.

 

Overall, a very neat, sweet, and complete system.

 

Martha


"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing:  the last of the human freedoms--to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."  Viktor E. Frankl

 

"Life's like a movie, write your own ending."  The Muppets


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