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Confusion on when to issue NCR, CAR and PAR


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#1 JCSL

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 06:31 AM

Hi, 

 

I am confused when to issue NCR,CAR and PAR.

 

1. Is it every NCR issued must followed by a CAR and PAR? Can we only raise NCR but not followed by any CAR? 

2.To raise a CAR and PAR,one must raise NCR first?

 

Thank you very much for all your help :)

 

 



#2 Simon

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 09:22 AM

An NCR is a non-conformance. For every NCR there should be corrective and (ideally) preventive action to stop it from ever happening again.

Example:

In my household leaving the toilet seat up is a non-conformance against the bathroom SOP123, which is authorised by my wife.

When the toilet seat is left in the up position it can be corrected by simply putting it down.  However, this is not enough as it will be up again in a short while without stronger action.

So my wife could issue a non-conformance and demand corrective action, which could be to inform all members of the family (retraining).  But likely the effect of that training would be short lived and soon enough (next time of use) the toilet seat would be in the up position again.

A preventive action could be to install a self-closing toilet seat that sensed when the person using the toilet had left the bathroom.  This is mistake proofing and preventive action at its best.  That said it can prove to be expensive or not possible in all situations.

Regards,
Simon


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#3 Charles.C

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 09:51 AM

Hi, 

 

I am confused when to issue NCR,CAR and PAR.

 

1. Is it every NCR issued must followed by a CAR and PAR? Can we only raise NCR but not followed by any CAR? 

2.To raise a CAR and PAR,one must raise NCR first?

 

Thank you very much for all your help :)

 

HI JCSL,

 

here is, i think, an ISO answer which also includes a few more acronyms -

 

http://mireauxms.com...s-pars-vs-scars

 

the typical hacp answer may be rather narrower in some cases, notably NCR


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#4 esquef

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:54 PM

An NCR is a non-conformance. For every NCR there should be corrective and (ideally) preventive action to stop it from ever happening again.

Example:

In my household leaving the toilet seat up is a non-conformance against the bathroom SOP123, which is authorised by my wife.

When the toilet seat is left in the up position it can be corrected by simply putting it down.  However, this is not enough as it will be up again in a short while without stronger action.

So my wife could issue a non-conformance and demand corrective action, which could be to inform all members of the family (retraining).  But likely the effect of that training would be short lived and soon enough (next time of use) the toilet seat would be in the up position again.

A preventive action could be to install a self-closing toilet seat that sensed when the person using the toilet had left the bathroom.  This is mistake proofing and preventive action at its best.  That said it can prove to be expensive or not possible in all situations.

Regards,
Simon



Brilliant "real world" correlation Simon! I may borrow this for training purposes if you don't mind.

#5 Simon

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 04:58 PM

Of course Esquef. :smile:


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#6 JCSL

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:52 AM

Is it possible we only have corrective action and preventive action without any NCR?



#7 BrummyJim

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 09:09 AM

If there's no non-conformance, what is there that needs correcting or preventing?



#8 Charles.C

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 09:51 AM


 

Hi JCSL,

 

1. (a) Is it every NCR issued must followed by a CAR and PAR? (b) Can we only raise NCR but not followed by any CAR? 

2.To raise a CAR and PAR,one must raise NCR first?

3. Is it possible we only have corrective action and preventive action without any NCR?

 

 

1.a = Yes and No.

1.b = No

2.   = Yes and No.

3.   = No and Yes.

 

The reasons are all in post 3, et al


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#9 JCSL

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 02:27 AM

Thanks all for the very clear explanation. Appreciate it.Now no more confusion :) 



#10 Simon

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 05:47 AM

Thanks for the reply JCSL, we are glad we could help you.

 

If you have further questions feel free to start a new topic.

 

Regards,

Simon


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#11 Mmmm_food

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 12:58 AM

Good question. The responses have confirmed my thoughts on the subject.

 

Other facilities in my organisation will talk about raising a CAR when there is an issue. What they really mean is an NCR followed by a CAR.

 

I'd really like to correct them so that we're all using consistent language but I feel like it would be petty.



#12 Simon

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 05:57 AM

Good question. The responses have confirmed my thoughts on the subject.

 

Other facilities in my organisation will talk about raising a CAR when there is an issue. What they really mean is an NCR followed by a CAR.

 

I'd really like to correct them so that we're all using consistent language but I feel like it would be petty.

 

Slide it in to some appropriate training next time you have it and then maybe they will start the discussion. :smile:


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