Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo

Confusion on when to issue NCR, CAR and PAR


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

JCSL

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 17 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Earth
    Earth

Posted 09 October 2015 - 06:31 AM

Hi, 

 

I am confused when to issue NCR,CAR and PAR.

 

1. Is it every NCR issued must followed by a CAR and PAR? Can we only raise NCR but not followed by any CAR? 

2.To raise a CAR and PAR,one must raise NCR first?

 

Thank you very much for all your help :)

 

 



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,554 posts
  • 1323 thanks
744
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 09 October 2015 - 09:22 AM

An NCR is a non-conformance. For every NCR there should be corrective and (ideally) preventive action to stop it from ever happening again.

Example:

In my household leaving the toilet seat up is a non-conformance against the bathroom SOP123, which is authorised by my wife.

When the toilet seat is left in the up position it can be corrected by simply putting it down.  However, this is not enough as it will be up again in a short while without stronger action.

So my wife could issue a non-conformance and demand corrective action, which could be to inform all members of the family (retraining).  But likely the effect of that training would be short lived and soon enough (next time of use) the toilet seat would be in the up position again.

A preventive action could be to install a self-closing toilet seat that sensed when the person using the toilet had left the bathroom.  This is mistake proofing and preventive action at its best.  That said it can prove to be expensive or not possible in all situations.

Regards,
Simon


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


Thanked by 7 Members:

Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 19,090 posts
  • 5312 thanks
1,278
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 09 October 2015 - 09:51 AM

Hi, 

 

I am confused when to issue NCR,CAR and PAR.

 

1. Is it every NCR issued must followed by a CAR and PAR? Can we only raise NCR but not followed by any CAR? 

2.To raise a CAR and PAR,one must raise NCR first?

 

Thank you very much for all your help :)

 

HI JCSL,

 

here is, i think, an ISO answer which also includes a few more acronyms -

 

http://mireauxms.com...s-pars-vs-scars

 

the typical hacp answer may be rather narrower in some cases, notably NCR


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Thanked by 1 Member:

esquef

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 374 posts
  • 234 thanks
41
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:54 PM

An NCR is a non-conformance. For every NCR there should be corrective and (ideally) preventive action to stop it from ever happening again.

Example:

In my household leaving the toilet seat up is a non-conformance against the bathroom SOP123, which is authorised by my wife.

When the toilet seat is left in the up position it can be corrected by simply putting it down.  However, this is not enough as it will be up again in a short while without stronger action.

So my wife could issue a non-conformance and demand corrective action, which could be to inform all members of the family (retraining).  But likely the effect of that training would be short lived and soon enough (next time of use) the toilet seat would be in the up position again.

A preventive action could be to install a self-closing toilet seat that sensed when the person using the toilet had left the bathroom.  This is mistake proofing and preventive action at its best.  That said it can prove to be expensive or not possible in all situations.

Regards,
Simon



Brilliant "real world" correlation Simon! I may borrow this for training purposes if you don't mind.


Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,554 posts
  • 1323 thanks
744
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 09 October 2015 - 04:58 PM

Of course Esquef. :smile:


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


JCSL

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 17 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Earth
    Earth

Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:52 AM

Is it possible we only have corrective action and preventive action without any NCR?



BrummyJim

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 329 posts
  • 117 thanks
26
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South West
  • Interests:Motorbike gone now. Only the dog to walk!

Posted 12 October 2015 - 09:09 AM

If there's no non-conformance, what is there that needs correcting or preventing?



Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 19,090 posts
  • 5312 thanks
1,278
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 12 October 2015 - 09:51 AM


 

Hi JCSL,

 

1. (a) Is it every NCR issued must followed by a CAR and PAR? (b) Can we only raise NCR but not followed by any CAR? 

2.To raise a CAR and PAR,one must raise NCR first?

3. Is it possible we only have corrective action and preventive action without any NCR?

 

 

1.a = Yes and No.

1.b = No

2.   = Yes and No.

3.   = No and Yes.

 

The reasons are all in post 3, et al


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


JCSL

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 17 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Earth
    Earth

Posted 13 October 2015 - 02:27 AM

Thanks all for the very clear explanation. Appreciate it.Now no more confusion :) 



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,554 posts
  • 1323 thanks
744
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 13 October 2015 - 05:47 AM

Thanks for the reply JCSL, we are glad we could help you.

 

If you have further questions feel free to start a new topic.

 

Regards,

Simon


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


Mmmm_food

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 36 posts
  • 8 thanks
2
Neutral

  • Earth
    Earth

Posted 15 October 2015 - 12:58 AM

Good question. The responses have confirmed my thoughts on the subject.

 

Other facilities in my organisation will talk about raising a CAR when there is an issue. What they really mean is an NCR followed by a CAR.

 

I'd really like to correct them so that we're all using consistent language but I feel like it would be petty.



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,554 posts
  • 1323 thanks
744
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 15 October 2015 - 05:57 AM

Good question. The responses have confirmed my thoughts on the subject.

 

Other facilities in my organisation will talk about raising a CAR when there is an issue. What they really mean is an NCR followed by a CAR.

 

I'd really like to correct them so that we're all using consistent language but I feel like it would be petty.

 

Slide it in to some appropriate training next time you have it and then maybe they will start the discussion. :smile:


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users