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Environmental Testing- Restrooms and packing room walls


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#1 SoCalLiving

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 10:26 PM

Hello,

 

I'm reviewing an environmental program for a supplier, they have restrooms and packing area walls on their routine testing schedule.

 

I have always done the cold storage rooms and never included the restrooms or packing area. It has never been an issue with auditors.

 

Can you please share your opinion, I am curious if I am missing something.

 

Best regards,

 

SCL



#2 GMO

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 07:47 AM

Hello,

 

I'm reviewing an environmental program for a supplier, they have restrooms and packing area walls on their routine testing schedule.

 

I have always done the cold storage rooms and never included the restrooms or packing area. It has never been an issue with auditors.

 

 

I assume you mean environmental swabbing?  I have learned a lot over the past few years and now include more low risk areas in my Listeria swab plan than I used to.  This wouldn't be on a frequent basis but as I type I'm wondering if I need to have a look again.  Lots of people assume their barriers to high risk and high care are perfect.  I would say that the only assumption you can have is that they're not.

 

It's also worth having some hand contact points as this could be how product gets contaminated.  That all said, I would never swab restrooms and I don't really see the reason for walls but it's worth finding out what issues they've had historically.

 

If you're talking indicator swabs like TVCs or Enteros, I would only swab in product contact areas or hand contact points.  I don't really see the point of swabbing elsewhere.

 

It comes down to what you want to achieve from your swabbing regime.  Are you looking for an early warning system for pathogens?  Are you checking cleaning?  I don't see how either of these would be served by swabbing the restroom.

 

There is (I've been told) an unusual attitude to Listeria swabbing though in the US in particular.  Is that where you're based?  Due to the zero tolerance in legislation and various other parts of US legislation which make it problematic, I've been told that the Listeria swabbing plan very rarely includes any food contact equipment?  



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#3 AS NUR

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 08:14 AM

Hello,

 

I'm reviewing an environmental program for a supplier, they have restrooms and packing area walls on their routine testing schedule.

 

I have always done the cold storage rooms and never included the restrooms or packing area. It has never been an issue with auditors.

 

Can you please share your opinion, I am curious if I am missing something.

 

Best regards,

 

SCL

Dear SCL,

 

IMO.. They do the test to make sure, there is not contamination from their rooms, i always checks micro on my packing room, and i have micro standard for that room. I used air sampler to check it.  and for your situation swab test is suit to check micro level.

 

Rgds

 

AS Nur



#4 SoCalLiving

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 03:22 PM

I'm sorry, I was very tired when I asked the question. Yes packing rooms I do the swabbing no question.

 

it's the restrooms I was confused about. I have never done this and the supplier supplied results.

 

I never considered the restrooms.



#5 GMO

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 09:43 PM

I'm sorry, I was very tired when I asked the question. Yes packing rooms I do the swabbing no question.

 

it's the restrooms I was confused about. I have never done this and the supplier supplied results.

 

I never considered the restrooms.

 

I don't see why you should?  By the same token should you be sampling people's lunches?  Should you be swabbing the car park?  Do you go to peoples homes and swab there?  Do you swab their personal clothing?  No, that's ridiculous.  If you don't wear workwear in the restrooms (and please tell me you don't) then where is the significant risk?



#6 Charles.C

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 01:39 AM

Hi SoCalLiving,

 

I agree with the previous post, and particularly the last sentence.

 

Facility-locational interpretations may vary regarding the hygienic control of personnel clothing / changing rooms / restrooms.

 

Googling shows that restrooms / bathrooms (specific sampling point unspecified) are included within some environmental sampling programs.

 

Restrooms/bathrooms are typically classified within Zone 4 areas, eg see env (1,2,3,6) below.

 

Sampling programs / specific frequencies for Zones 1-4 are discussed in env (2,4,5,6)

 

As noted in Post 2, some of the motivation is related to Listeria issues. Zone 4 also appears as a (probable) low risk component within general ES Procedures.

 

Attached File  env1 - Listeria in Ready-to-Eat _RTE_ Food Manufacturing Plants.pdf   148.33KB   812 downloads

Attached File  env2 - pathogen environmental monitoring program.pdf   819.06KB   1204 downloads

Attached File  env3 - Kraft, environmental monitoring program.pdf   1.35MB   1044 downloads

Attached File  env4 - AIB environmental monitoring program.pdf   412.49KB   949 downloads

Attached File  env5 - 3M Environmental Monitoring.pdf   1.09MB   1016 downloads

Attached File  env6 - Zoning Requirements, Pathogen Environment Monitoring for Dairy Suppliers.pdf   1.07MB   886 downloads

 

PS - from a mainly Listeria POV, i noticed this recent article which seemed well-informed and readable.

 

http://www.foodsafet...uce-facilities/

 

In contrast. I also noticed the snapshot illustrating the use of painted lines to control/separate a pathway for RTE/non-RTE workers as discussed  in a practically different scenario in a recent thread. The concept still looks highly optimistic / questionable to me, even more so for a RTE operation.

 

PS - 3 more EMPG files here -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...am/#entry119334


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#7 w.weber

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 12:58 PM

Hello,

beside the rest rooms we added toilet door handles, working clothes after laundry, ...

 

Some of our customer insist on these checks, assuming to reduce the possible risk of contaminations missing your normal hygiene steps.

Because every killing / disinfection steps usually kills a typically amount of bacteria (e.g. 5 logs). So if you get a contamination too high before the hygiene step, this step may struggle to kill all the bacteria needed to kill. So if you ensure you have a limited amount before the disinfection step, your hygienic precautions may be able to kill enough to ensure no risk for contamination within production area afterwards.

 

Yours

Werner



#8 JohnWheat

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 01:01 PM

I don't see why you should?  By the same token should you be sampling people's lunches?  Should you be swabbing the car park?  Do you go to peoples homes and swab there?  Do you swab their personal clothing?  No, that's ridiculous.  If you don't wear workwear in the restrooms (and please tell me you don't) then where is the significant risk?

Agreed in full






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