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Finished Product Micro - Probiotic Yogurts, Beverages


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#1 Maillard

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:53 PM

Hello all,

 

We are planning to launch a product that will include probiotics (as well as pasteurized flavors for flavor extensions) after 

 

Wanted to ask the community, especially those with experience in probiotic yogurt products if the below micro parameters seem appropriate.  The inclusion of live-active probiotics would make the tpc counts high but is it also worth testing yeast with y/m having same limits?  Are there any other relevant tests to consider?

 

min n per lot 5       Test Target Acceptable Reject Days Coliform <10 10 (1 of 5) >10 2 Mold <10 <100 >100 5 Stress Test (-) (-) (+) 2

 

Thanks



#2 Maillard

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:58 PM

The table i meant to have didn't format correctly so re-writing test parameters (n = ≥5 per lot):

  • Coliforms: <10 (Target); 10 (1 of 5) (acceptable); >10 (reject)
  • Mold: <10 (target); <100 (acceptable); >100 (reject)
  • Stress Test: (-) accept; (+) reject

 



#3 PS1

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 03:18 AM

Hi,

If it is a new product or process then I suggest you validate it further by doing pathogen testing for the first x batches, then at a defined frequency going forward. I am not familiar with the stress test.

Just my 2c :)



#4 Charles.C

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 10:05 AM

Hi Maillard

 

Coliforms: <10 (Target); 10 (1 of 5) (acceptable); >10 (reject)

Above is a rather unusual format IMEX. Suggests you wish to differentiate 9.9, 10.0, 10.1 ?? If only Micro.data was that accurate !

 

I have also never seen the "stress" test. Dropping the finished product from a great height ?

 

I suspect Y&M may use the same test (never personally done it), hence the routine combination (?). Typically both should be low/very low of course if a pasteurization is carried out.

 

You might try this thread for Y&M although not specifically on probiotics -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...its-in-yoghurt/

 

Additionally there is a very extended thread on haccp(FSSC22000)/yoghurt here which includes many micro. specifications -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...o-22000-73-744/

 

PS - this one is also vaguely related -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ines-uk-and-eu/

 

PPS - the proposed mold spec.is from 1st link above "fairly" typical albeit potentially of safety-related significance.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#5 Ryan M.

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 08:38 PM

Coliform, yeast, mold.  TPC obviously no relevance.  Pathogens maybe...but if you are pasteurizing and following protocols for FDA with pasteurization (or another relevant regulatory body) there's no need for pathogens.  You need to validate the process and the controls...not through end product testing.

 

That upper mold limit seems suspiciously high...usually 50 or less is acceptable.  Some cultured facilities have 20 or less.  This all depends on the target shelf-life of the product, any additives to help prevent mold growth (natamycin?) or other factors.



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#6 Charles.C

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 09:35 PM

Coliform, yeast, mold.  TPC obviously no relevance.  Pathogens maybe...but if you are pasteurizing and following protocols for FDA with pasteurization (or another relevant regulatory body) there's no need for pathogens.  You need to validate the process and the controls...not through end product testing.

 

That upper mold limit seems suspiciously high...usually 50 or less is acceptable.  Some cultured facilities have 20 or less.  This all depends on the target shelf-life of the product, any additives to help prevent mold growth (natamycin?) or other factors.

 

Ideally the mould should be "zero" due pasteurization.

The safety aspect is mycotoxins.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#7 Maillard

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 09:35 PM

Thanks all.  To clarify, stress test is typically a 2-3 day incubation at 30-32°C followed by a visual check for growth (typically mold).

 

I agree rmills06 that the molds can be reduced; The USDA Specifications for Yogurt, Nonfat Yogurt and Lowfat Yogurt had limits for y/m at <50.

 

What I am struggling with our probiotic supplier is a spec that has yeast <500 on their material. This is added after the pasteurization step...



#8 Charles.C

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 09:45 PM

Thanks all.  To clarify, stress test is typically a 2-3 day incubation at 30-32°C followed by a visual check for growth (typically mold).

 

I agree rmills06 that the molds can be reduced; The USDA Specifications for Yogurt, Nonfat Yogurt and Lowfat Yogurt had limits for y/m at <50.

 

What I am struggling with our probiotic supplier is a spec that has yeast <500 on their material. This is added after the pasteurization step...

 

Hi Maillard,

 

The obvious question to the supplier is "Why" ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#9 Ryan M.

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:22 AM

Ideally the mould should be "zero" due pasteurization.

The safety aspect is mycotoxins.

 

Well pasteurization doesn't completely eliminate mold.  It depends on how much is there to start.  Regardless, most molds do not produce mycotoxin.  Mold is inherently a factor in the packaging environment so yes "ZERO" would be ideal, but it is not practical given the type of processing.



#10 Ryan M.

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:23 AM

You need to push back on the supplier to give you a lower specification.  If they can't you have to use someone else.  That potential yeast count in your finished, post-pasteurized product can end up blowing up your packaging.  It isn't really a safety issue, but going to be a quality problem for sure.

 

 

Thanks all.  To clarify, stress test is typically a 2-3 day incubation at 30-32°C followed by a visual check for growth (typically mold).

 

I agree rmills06 that the molds can be reduced; The USDA Specifications for Yogurt, Nonfat Yogurt and Lowfat Yogurt had limits for y/m at <50.

 

What I am struggling with our probiotic supplier is a spec that has yeast <500 on their material. This is added after the pasteurization step...



#11 Maillard

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:28 AM

Will continue discussions with supplier.  From a quality perspective, I am wondering if 10^7-10^10 viable, active probiotics in the finished product would out-compete and create conditions for low, slow growth of yeast?

 

You need to push back on the supplier to give you a lower specification.  If they can't you have to use someone else.  That potential yeast count in your finished, post-pasteurized product can end up blowing up your packaging.  It isn't really a safety issue, but going to be a quality problem for sure.



#12 Charles.C

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:07 AM

(1) Well pasteurization doesn't completely eliminate mold.  It depends on how much is there to start.

 

(2) Regardless, most molds do not produce mycotoxin.

 

(3) Mold is inherently a factor in the packaging environment so yes "ZERO" would be ideal, but it is not practical given the type of processing.

 

(1) Semantics.

Attached File  yg1 - pasteurization.pdf   218.07KB   7 downloads

(Technology of Dairy Products, Early)

 

Attached File  yg3 - pasteurization2.doc   34KB   7 downloads

 

(2) Semantics - mycotoxins.

Yes. Now read the 1st link in Post 4 above, esp. Posts 8-9

 

(3) Suggested.

Attached File  yg2 - yoghurt advisory standard.pdf   26.25KB   10 downloads

(Tamime and Robinson's Yoghurt)

 

@Maillard - do you have any comment regarding "Coliform"/Post4 ?

No.2 above has possible relevance to yr yeast <500cfu comment. The implication is that something/somewhere is uncontrolled/uncontrollable.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#13 Tony-C

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:26 AM

Thanks all.  To clarify, stress test is typically a 2-3 day incubation at 30-32°C followed by a visual check for growth (typically mold).

 

I agree rmills06 that the molds can be reduced; The USDA Specifications for Yogurt, Nonfat Yogurt and Lowfat Yogurt had limits for y/m at <50.

 

What I am struggling with our probiotic supplier is a spec that has yeast <500 on their material. This is added after the pasteurization step...

 

Hi Maillard,

 

I think your targets are reasonable.

It seems that your supplier specification is inaccurate and that yeasts and molds are likely to be absent. Here is a typical specification: http://www.probiotic...um_Bifidum.html

 

Change supplier if they don't want to play ball, there are plenty out there.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony



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#14 Charles.C

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:33 AM

Hi Maillard,

 

I think your targets are reasonable.

It seems that your supplier specification is inaccurate and that yeasts and molds are likely to be absent. Here is a typical specification: http://www.probiotic...um_Bifidum.html

 

Change supplier if they don't want to play ball, there are plenty out there.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

 

Hi Tony,

 

Thks for the useful spec. but perhaps partially unintelligible to many people here due its "clumsy" (archaic?) micro. numerics. ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#15 Tony-C

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:39 AM

Hi Tony,

 

Thks for the useful spec. but perhaps partially unintelligible to many people here due its "clumsy" (archaic?) micro. numerics. ?

 

Hi Charles,

 

I'll simplify it:

Bifidobacteria CFU/g 1 x 108 min/g
Enterobacteriaceae: negative 1g
Yeast and mould: negative 1g
Staphylococcus aureus: negative 10g
Salmonella: negative 30g
 
It is more like I would expect to see in a specification and certainly not < 500/g for any micro criteria except the probiotic.
 
Kind regards,
 
Tony


#16 Charles.C

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:57 AM

 

Hi Charles,

 

I'll simplify it:

Bifidobacteria CFU/g 1 x 108 min/g
Enterobacteriaceae: negative 1g ( or <1cfu/g)
Yeast and mould: negative 1g (or <1cfu/g)
Staphylococcus aureus: negative 10g (= Not detected in 10g sample)
Salmonella: negative 30g (= Not detected in 30g sample)
 
It is more like I would expect to see in a specification and certainly not < 500/g for any micro criteria except the probiotic.
 
Kind regards,
 
Tony

 

 

Hi Tony,

 

Yours is improved.

 

Red maybe helpful, maybe not.

 

The spec. is apparently of Chinese origin via IDF (pre-2000 but quite possibly still [Dairy] current albeit some of the numbers are unorthodox).

 

Some interesting biological claims. :smile:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#17 Tony-C

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 06:33 AM

Hi Tony,

 

Yours is improved.

 

Red maybe helpful, maybe not.

 

The spec. is apparently of Chinese origin via IDF (pre-2000 but quite possibly still [Dairy] current albeit some of the numbers are unorthodox).

 

Some interesting biological claims. :smile:

 

Hi Charles,

 

The numbers are around what I would expect to see, I'm not advocating the supplier by any means  ;)

 

This may be more to your liking:

Attached File  YO-MIX 207 LYO 250DCU EN.pdf   20.49KB   7 downloads

 

or this:

Attached File  Lyofast acidophilus LA3 91LA30UK0 (2).pdf   77.69KB   6 downloads

 

or this:

Attached File  Lyofast BLC1 Bifidobacterium 91BLC10UK0.pdf   77.96KB   6 downloads

 

or this:

Attached File  Lyofast probiotic mix M91YAB352EB0UK0.pdf   53.21KB   4 downloads

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony



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#18 Charles.C

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 07:29 AM

Hi Tony,

 

Thks for above. Very nice albeit still antique references. I guess "yoghurt" has been globally around a long time.

 

Seems the IDF opinion on Y&M was revised upwards from "<1" to "<10" just after the Chinese spec's referenced data. Perhaps a switch in Procedure. Or a reality check.

 

One suspects that all these data were (somehow) interpreted from an original "Not Detected in Xg" although this is maybe not obligatory if an MPN format.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#19 Maillard

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 04:35 PM

Thanks all for the input. I was able to reach out to the supplier and we're working on amending their spec to a more appropriate tolerance (<100).



#20 Charles.C

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 12:05 AM

Thanks all for the input. I was able to reach out to the supplier and we're working on amending their spec to a more appropriate tolerance (<100).

 

Hi Maillard,

 

Re Post 12 -

@Maillard - do you have any comment regarding "Coliform"/Post4 ?

 

Does the 1st Quote above answer the 2nd one ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#21 Maillard

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 05:22 PM

Regarding the coliform <10: This is essentially a not detected on petrifilm.  With the dilution used, no visible colonies on petrifilm would indicate <10 cfu

 

@Maillard - do you have any comment regarding "Coliform"/Post4 ?



#22 Charles.C

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:02 PM

 

Regarding the coliform <10: This is essentially a not detected on petrifilm.  With the dilution used, no visible colonies on petrifilm would indicate <10 cfu

 

 

Hi Maillard,

 

Thks. I hope this system is validated for dairy products (I found VRB gave contentious results for seafood although count levels were much higher than present).

 

Plate count methods are intrinsically debatable at such low levels since the accuracy is questionable (although the alternatives are not particularly fantastic either and are certainly more laborious).


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#23 Maillard

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:21 PM

My actual product is non-dairy. i'm not having to deal with milk or raw milk micro loads to begin with... Key raw material receives a 6d non-prot c.bot equivalent thermal process. Final product still undergoes a pasteurization step.

 

Charles.C, on 02 Nov 2016 - 4:02 PM, said:

Hi Maillard,

 

Thks. I hope this system is validated for dairy products (I found VRB gave contentious results for seafood although count levels were much higher than present).

 

Plate count methods are intrinsically debatable at such low levels since the accuracy is questionable (although the alternatives are not particularly fantastic either and are certainly more laborious).



#24 Charles.C

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:29 PM

My actual product is non-dairy. i'm not having to deal with milk or raw milk micro loads to begin with... Key raw material receives a 6d non-prot c.bot equivalent thermal process. Final product still undergoes a pasteurization step.

 

 

Hi Maillard,

 

Bit confusing Re.Title / previous posts but thanks anyway.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C





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