10 replies to this topic

[JuicerICU]

​Hello Everyone,

 

​Today as I did my usual walk around the production floor the only difference for today is we are only using one side of our facility. I took the opportunity to check the hose nozzles and hoses.

 

​To my disgust and disappointment, I noticed most of the hoses in awful conditions and one nozzle that from afar was obvious it had mold. I took it off the hose immediately and noticed particles inside which I believe is mold and corrosion. There's even a piece of glove inside.

 

This could have been reported by sanitation, production, production supervisor and the QA that "supposedly" does pre-op.

 

​Look at the pictures and give me your thoughts. I have never seen particle within a nozzle but my managers says its usual but I disagree for a number a reason.

 

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[Felicia Loo]

Hi JuicerICU, 

 

If this is the normal situation, any water that came off from the hose, may be contaminated with molds -sample the water for yeast and mold testing to be sure. I would recommend that frequent check for the condition of the water hoses to determine the frequency to replace the water hose. if this is usual, then the water hoses need to be replaced more frequent. 

 

Hope it helps. 

[Charles.C]

Hi Juicier,

 

How old is the hose, what is the Product/process and where/how is the hose stored ? Was the problem noted for only 1 hose of several or all ?

 

I assume yr walk is a long established routine, eg monthly for >= 1 year and that the occurrences described would hv been previously noticed if present.

 

i assume (a) typical GMP procedures / and (b) a SOP covering usage/storage/neighbouring environmental control regarding hose are being followed / exist respectively.

 

If so, IMEX it is likely that some significant,related, change in (a,b) has occurred to cause the defect. This would be my first direction to investigate. Hopefully QA/other relevant  Operatives may be able to shed light on this query even if the available Records do not.

[JuicerICU]

Hi JuicerICU, 

 

If this is the normal situation, any water that came off from the hose, may be contaminated with molds -sample the water for yeast and mold testing to be sure. I would recommend that frequent check for the condition of the water hoses to determine the frequency to replace the water hose. if this is usual, then the water hoses need to be replaced more frequent. 

 

Hope it helps. 

At the moment a few of our clients have received product lab results with extremely high APC counts. Could the hose be part of the issue?

Also I am guessing we have a hard water issue? But my manager says hard water isn't a issue, is this true?

 

 

Hi Juicier,

 

How old is the hose, what is the Product/process and where/how is the hose stored ? Was the problem noted for only 1 hose of several or all ?

 

I assume yr walk is a long established routine, eg monthly for >= 1 year and that the occurrences described would hv been previously noticed if present.

 

i assume (a) typical GMP procedures / and (b) a SOP covering usage/storage/neighbouring environmental control regarding hose are being followed / exist respectively.

 

If so, IMEX it is likely that some significant,related, change in (a,b) has occurred to cause the defect. This would be my first direction to investigate. Hopefully QA/other relevant  Operatives may be able to shed light on this query even if the available Records do not.

I have been preparing for a 3rd party audit I.e doing my bosses work for the past 3 weeks so I have not been on the floor as much as I normally would.  I have no idea how old the hose is tbh,

 

In my plant It honestly feels like no one cares. Maintenance just gets requests and don't do anything unless something happens, then they act.

My Manager is pretty old and he forgets everything and doesn't know much he just says yes to everything.

[redfox]

Hello JuicerICU,

 

As the photograph reveals, you have problems with you equipment maintenance program, cleaning and sanitation. The hoses deserve to be replaced.

 

regards,

redfox

[Charles.C]

Hello JuicerICU,

 

As the photograph reveals, you have problems with you equipment maintenance program, cleaning and sanitation. The hoses deserve to be replaced.

 

regards,

redfox

 

I agree with the corrective action. Hopefully the problem is not ubiquitous but, depending on a Risk Assessment, you may need to do some product/water micro.analyses.

 

I suggest you request QA to initiate a Root Cause Analysis. Perhaps you are the QA section ?

[GMO]

​

 

This could have been reported by sanitation, production, production supervisor and the QA that "supposedly" does pre-op.

 

​

 

I think that's harsh.  People only know where to look when they know it's a problem.  I take it you'd never thought to look there before? 

 

It's worth putting these hoses on a regular replacement schedule and possibly looking at the material as well, it seems to break up easily.  Also if you are getting mould growth it would suggest to me that it is infrequently used or the spores wouldn't have time to grow.  If it's only some of your water hoses which are impacted then it is worth looking at whether these are not frequently used and so effectively they have become dead legs? 

 

Some sites also remove hoses outside of cleaning shifts and soak them in disinfectant.  Personally I doubt the disinfectant would be effective unless it's actively run through the pipe as you would get a massive air lock but it's a thought.

[JuicerICU]

I think that's harsh.  People only know where to look when they know it's a problem.  I take it you'd never thought to look there before? 

 

It's worth putting these hoses on a regular replacement schedule and possibly looking at the material as well, it seems to break up easily.  Also if you are getting mould growth it would suggest to me that it is infrequently used or the spores wouldn't have time to grow.  If it's only some of your water hoses which are impacted then it is worth looking at whether these are not frequently used and so effectively they have become dead legs? 

 

Some sites also remove hoses outside of cleaning shifts and soak them in disinfectant.  Personally I doubt the disinfectant would be effective unless it's actively run through the pipe as you would get a massive air lock but it's a thought.

 

I know it sounds a bit harsh but I mentioned individuals that have direct contact with the hose every day. I am not saying it is their job exclusively to look for this sort of things but the personnel know to report anything that doesn't seem right. This was not noticed sooner on my part because production or sanitation are using this particular hose all the time.

 

I was wondering would the condition of this hose nozzle contribute to high APC counts in RTE products?

[FurFarmandFork]

I was wondering would the condition of this hose nozzle contribute to high APC counts in RTE products?

 

 

If water from the hose is incorporated into the products then potentially. As stated above if you test water coming out of the hose you can get an idea of the microbial load it might be contributing, otherwise its just conjecture. If it's been used for sanitation purposes only I wouldn't pin it as a root cause for high counts in final products if you're sanitizing surfaces after cleaning, presumably the sanitizer would reduce or eliminate counts contributed by the hose.

[Ryan M.]

I've dealt with this problem before.  It is time to hone in on the following:

 

• Water quality and standards.  You need to test the source water to the facility and test water out of the hose (in current condition).  I recommend testing water from other points of use in the facility.
  • If you have yeast/mold in the water testing then that's really, really poor water quality.  There isn't much of a tendency for yeast and mold to grow in a waterborne environment unless that equipment has air pockets for long lengths of time.
  • Focus the testing on water hardness, APC, coliform.  Water hardness meters are relatively inexpensive and a good test to show your management you have soft water or hard water.  People are often surprised by the results....
• Equipment sanitation and PM.  All water, and if you have central sanitizer, sprayheads should be on a cleaning and maintenance program.  For those types of sprayheads you have to physically remove the rubber covering and clean it.  You can also buy the rubber covering separately and just choose to replace it.  Depends on how much $$$ they want to spend on this.
  • PM: historically I've had maintenance change out all water hoses and sanitizer hoses (we have central sanitizer system) annually.  In my experience, this is about the life of a hose before it starts to deteriorate to a point where it becomes a contributor of environmental problems; regardless of how often or infrequent the hose is used.

As for your question on the water hose being a source of contamination for RTE product; you bet.  One way to confirm this is to analyze the micro flora in the water versus the micro flora in the RTE product with a high TPC count.  There are third-party laboratories that will do this for you...some are cheaper than others with this so I would recommend shopping around.  We did this exact thing a few weeks ago when I noticed we had spotty product failures with pseudomonas (bacteria typically associated with water).  It was coming from the water hoses in our packaging room.  Operating personnel were rinsing down the packaging lines and floors with the water hoses when there was downtime or product spillage instead of using the sanitizer hoses.  The hose sprayheads were also not being cleaned sufficiently.

 

Good luck!  This can be a tough problem to solve and since it is kind of a hubris for your team right now, best to do testing and collect the data.  Then go to them with the data to get the $$$ and take action.  It can be very rewarding to solve the problem and put it behind you...just don't forget out it because it will come back to bite you if you do.

[GMO]

I know it sounds a bit harsh but I mentioned individuals that have direct contact with the hose every day. I am not saying it is their job exclusively to look for this sort of things but the personnel know to report anything that doesn't seem right. This was not noticed sooner on my part because production or sanitation are using this particular hose all the time.

 

I was wondering would the condition of this hose nozzle contribute to high APC counts in RTE products?

 

Even aerosols in the area could contribute so yes it could be a source.