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Please provide guidance on the critical point of metal detector?

BRC ISSUE 7

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#1 Andrius Ginting

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 01:13 PM

Hallo,

In september we will be audited BRC. on metal detector we use Fe 1.5 Non Fe 2.0 and SUS 2.5 for critical limit. is there any guidance for this?

sorry my english is bad
I hope you can help me.

:giggle:



#2 jcieslowski

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 02:31 PM

I had some trouble coming up with proper justification for my specific metal detection limits but ultimately settled on, basically, "that's the best the manufacture can do" as the reason why we picked our limits (which were the same as yours).



#3 Charles.C

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 05:26 PM

Hallo,

In september we will be audited BRC. on metal detector we use Fe 1.5 Non Fe 2.0 and SUS 2.5 for critical limit. is there any guidance for this?

sorry my english is bad
I hope you can help me.

:giggle:

 

Hi Andrius,

 

i assume that there is no Local requirement requiring that a (food) MD must detect metal particles down to some specified minimum dimension.

 

Operationally auditors know that the aperture size of an MD affects the sensitivity. And also the type of food matrix. Tables of typical MD sensitivities in respect to these parameters are published.

 

The choice of limits may depend on how many ("magnetically different") food matrices you are running and  whether you want one "critical" set for all products.

 

As previous Post, one popular option is to define the critical limit for each of the 3 ref.materials as the Limit of Detection (LOD) of yr metal detector for the given food matrix, aperture etc.

 

A generic, logical, procedure oriented to  BRC which is based on locating the operational LOD is described here -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ted/#entry66636

 

In practice, IMEX, auditors are well aware of the sensitivity tables mentioned above and as long as yr quoted limits are reasonably consistent with such tables and a documented operational validation of quoted limits exists most auditors will be satisfied.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#4 Dr Vu

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:05 AM

I took a wilder approach

Mandated all suppliers to have  metal detectors..

So likely metal will come from my facility..so I  did extensive study of all likely metal that can end up in the product(nuts,bolts,nails etc)..

I took the smallest one and validated that my MD can pick that

 found same size card and did validation again..

 that is how I established my ccp


A vu in time , saves nine

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#5 Charles.C

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:42 AM

I took a wilder approach

Mandated all suppliers to have  metal detectors..

So likely metal will come from my facility..so I  did extensive study of all likely metal that can end up in the product(nuts,bolts,nails etc)..

I took the smallest one and validated that my MD can pick that

 found same size card and did validation again..

 that is how I established my ccp

 

Hi Dr Vu,

 

IIRC the CFIA now generically offer (mandate?) their interpretation of "smallest one" from a FS POV.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#6 012117

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:45 AM

Hi, Andrius.

 

You can support it by performing validation for your products considering the possible case scenarios (in example, maximum speed the line is allowed to run, the maximum amount of water allowed in the product, etc..), document the outcome and use to support your limits. If there are local regulations, just ensure your limits will be less than what is required by this regulation.

 

Also note that these limits are based only on the "reproducible" sizes of the test pieces and may not normally equate to what we historically experienced in our line. For example, may have 2mm SS as the limit but it may not able to detect 2mm SS shavings or 2mm wire. So to increased confidence (like what Dr Vu has done) or to aid you in your investigations (for complaints or whatsoever), you may also want to check your settings with "real" contaminants.

 

To ensure as well that you have confidence on its efficiency, also consider false detection rate during your validation. You may not want to have setting that will have your detector units alarm from time to time even with foreign material recovered.

 

I also wonder why we always have so much test pieces (Fe, nonFe and SS), are all of these present in HACCP study?



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#7 012117

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:47 AM

Btw, from my experience,  we always try to follow the concept "as low as technically as possible" limits.



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#8 Charles.C

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:05 AM

Hi, Andrius.

 

 

I also wonder why we always have so much test pieces (Fe, nonFe and SS), are all of these present in HACCP study?

 

Customers. :smile:

 

PS - Indeed, the actual test pieces are invariably spherical.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#9 Andrius Ginting

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 03:33 AM

Thanks for all of you. but some auditors ask me from where the reference to the use of the MD test is? and does the MD test piece need to be registered?



#10 Charles.C

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 05:08 AM

Thanks for all of you. but some auditors ask me from where the reference to the use of the MD test is? and does the MD test piece need to be registered?

 

What do you mean by "MD test"

 

If you mean how to "validate the sensitivity" see the detailed, attached file in the post  preceding the one which is linked in Post 3 above.

 

The test pieces are commercially available from various suppliers (just Google) and should come with an individual certificate for size/material.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#11 Andrius Ginting

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 01:22 PM

I mean, I have three test piece (fe, non fe, and sus) from my Metal detector. But my test piece is not have register number (not registered) Can I use the test piece? When i am audited BRC?

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#12 Charles.C

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 02:36 PM

I mean, I have three test piece (fe, non fe, and sus) from my Metal detector. But my test piece is not have register number (not registered) Can I use the test piece? When i am audited BRC?

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Hi Andrius,

 

It is normally required that the test pieces have certificates stating size/material and, probably,  traceability.

 

For example as described in this supplier -

 

https://www.fastecse...test-standards/

 

I also note that BRC7 requires -

 

•  Use of test pieces incorporating a sphere of metal of a known diameter selected on the basis of risk.
The test pieces shall be marked with the size and type of test material contained.
•  Tests carried out using separate test pieces containing ferrous metal, stainless steel and typically non-ferrous metal, unless the product is within a foil container where ferrous only may be applicable.

 


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#13 012117

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 01:20 AM

Hi, Andrius.

 

Agree with Charles, should be certified and traceable.

 

Thanks.



#14 Andrius Ginting

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 12:39 PM

Thank you for all information.

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#15 Zahid Sarfraz1

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 01:05 PM

You have to define the metal first...







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