Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo
- - - - -

AMR (Acid:Moisture Ratio), calculation for ambient sauce stability


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 Cobus

Cobus

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 14 posts
  • 7 thanks
1
Neutral

  • South Africa
    South Africa
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA

Posted 26 November 2018 - 09:32 AM

Hi

 

I have come across this in sauce manufacture but am struggling to find any real science behind this. Can anyone shed some light on this calculation for ambient sauce stability.



#2 Lesley.Roberts

Lesley.Roberts

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 165 posts
  • 77 thanks
33
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Manchester

Posted 26 November 2018 - 10:19 AM

Hi Cobus

 

It's been quite a long time since I worked with sauce stability - the link here may help 

 

https://onlinelibrar...1118346235.app2



#3 Charles.C

Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 17,851 posts
  • 4986 thanks
1,023
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 26 November 2018 - 01:43 PM

Hi Cobus

 

It's been quite a long time since I worked with sauce stability - the link here may help 

 

https://onlinelibrar...1118346235.app2

 

Hi Lesley,

 

Thanks for the impressive document.

 

I'm still trying to work out the practical meaning of "intrinsically safe but microbiologically unstable". :smile:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#4 Scampi

Scampi

    Fellow

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,939 posts
  • 807 thanks
389
Excellent

  • Canada
    Canada
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 26 November 2018 - 02:17 PM

here is the link to the CIMSCEE website...........there are all sorts of good scientific backed death curves, log reduction formula et all to be found. Don't let the dairy fool you, there is good information for everyone


Because we always have is never an appropriate response!


#5 Lesley.Roberts

Lesley.Roberts

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 165 posts
  • 77 thanks
33
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Manchester

Posted 26 November 2018 - 02:21 PM

Hi Lesley,

 

Thanks for the impressive document.

 

I'm still trying to work out the practical meaning of "intrinsically safe but microbiologically unstable". :smile:

 

Hi Charles - suspect that as CIMSCEE has been used for so long nobody has ever questioned the science/logic behind this & it was certainly pre stability & shelf life requirements for UK retailers.

 

The only logic I can think of behind "intrinsically safe but microbiologically unstable" is that it wouldn't support growth of pathogens but potentially could support growth of food spoilage organisms?...



Thanked by 1 Member:

#6 Scampi

Scampi

    Fellow

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,939 posts
  • 807 thanks
389
Excellent

  • Canada
    Canada
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 26 November 2018 - 02:44 PM

OMG  I completely forgot the link!

 

https://www.dairysci.../preserve-1.asp

 

 

Need more coffee now


Because we always have is never an appropriate response!


#7 pHruit

pHruit

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,522 posts
  • 640 thanks
350
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Composing/listening to classical music, electronics, mountain biking, science, sarcasm

Posted 26 November 2018 - 03:27 PM

Hi Charles - suspect that as CIMSCEE has been used for so long nobody has ever questioned the science/logic behind this & it was certainly pre stability & shelf life requirements for UK retailers.

 

The only logic I can think of behind "intrinsically safe but microbiologically unstable" is that it wouldn't support growth of pathogens but potentially could support growth of food spoilage organisms?...

Exactly this, Lesley - not going to grow anything harmful, but may still ferment / support various moulds etc.



#8 Cobus

Cobus

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 14 posts
  • 7 thanks
1
Neutral

  • South Africa
    South Africa
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA

Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:02 AM

Hi All

 

Thanks for the response.

 

CIMSCEE is valuable and useable for Mayo's and for sauces based on acetic acid. The problem comes in when you use other acids (i.e. Citric or Lactic). Can you still use the calculator as is?? Apparently the AMR works effectively for these as a quick calculation for stability.

 

One of he big issues with low pH sauces is Lactic Acid Bacteria (currently mine as well). I must agree that "intrinsically safe but microbiologically unstable" does not add a lot of value. Most of these type of sauces is safe against pathogens in any case but then they are not responsible for them blowing. Strangely there is also very little scientific information available on LAB in sauces (on ScienceDirect at least).



#9 Scampi

Scampi

    Fellow

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,939 posts
  • 807 thanks
389
Excellent

  • Canada
    Canada
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 27 November 2018 - 01:25 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17868939

 

https://www.scienced...215017X16300170

 

https://biblio.ugent...ile/4334568.pdf

 

http://www.rectofoss...ococcus-aureus/

 

I have not scrolled through any of the above, but perhaps one at least may be of some use


Because we always have is never an appropriate response!





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users