Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo

The Coronavirus (COVID-19) is a hoax thread - the ONLY topic for discussing alternate theories

Share this

Best Answer , 16 April 2020 - 12:49 PM

IFSQN have decided to close this topic to new posts and leave it in place on the forum.

 

Before closing it, I wanted to make this final post as a footnote.

 

As previously mentioned IFSQN are great believers in free speech and healthy debate.

 

Though widely understood definitions of free speech and healthy debate exist each one of us will have our own unique interpretations and our own distinct boundaries.

 

We are living in unprecedented times where people fear for their own lives and the lives of their friends and family and many people are concerned about their livelihoods. Moreover, there will be many visitors to the website who have been directly affected.

 

There is a wider question as to whether such an emotive topic should ever be discussed here, but the consensus is certainly not in these times.

 

This message came out loud and clear from members both on the public forum and in private messages and we have listened.

 

To members old and new you have demonstrated great professionalism, respect, and intelligence throughout this debate, and this makes me immensely proud of the fantastic community we have here at IFSQN.

 

Thank you,

Simon

 


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
53 replies to this topic
* - - - - 1 votes

SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 4,668 posts
  • 1140 thanks
1,133
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Just when I thought I was out - They pulled me back in!!!

Posted 13 April 2020 - 03:47 PM

And...here is the absurdity.  Obviously, he knows nothing of viral transmission and it seems you don't either.

 

I suppose polio and smallpox were hoaxes as well brought on by the government or some dark group as well?

 

Well, thank you for making my Friday and weekend.  I thought I didn't have anything to laugh about, but now I do.

Glad I could provide you with a laugh.

 

Here's another good one --

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf.html

 

and we've got an embedded one for review on our website at 

www.StopCoronaVirus.us

 

Some folks will continue bending over and some will stand up.


All the Best,

 

All Rights Reserved,

Without Prejudice,

Glenn Oster.

Glenn Oster Consulting, LLC -

SQF System Development | Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant

Martha's Vineyard Island, MA - Restored Republic

http://www.GCEMVI.XYZ

http://www.GlennOster.com

 


Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,835 posts
  • 1363 thanks
884
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 13 April 2020 - 03:56 PM

I think your website has been shut down Glenn.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 4,668 posts
  • 1140 thanks
1,133
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Just when I thought I was out - They pulled me back in!!!

Posted 13 April 2020 - 04:27 PM

I think your website has been shut down Glenn.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

Thanks, but no, it is working just fine.

 

Certain countries are restricting access - truth right now is not popular.


All the Best,

 

All Rights Reserved,

Without Prejudice,

Glenn Oster.

Glenn Oster Consulting, LLC -

SQF System Development | Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant

Martha's Vineyard Island, MA - Restored Republic

http://www.GCEMVI.XYZ

http://www.GlennOster.com

 


The Food Scientist

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,057 posts
  • 268 thanks
208
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Food Science, Nature, SQF, Learning, Trying out new foods, Sarcasm.

Posted 13 April 2020 - 04:32 PM

Thanks, but no, it is working just fine.

 

Certain countries are restricting access - truth right now is not popular.

 

I'm pretty sure it is shut down. There is nothing on there. Or restricted in the U.S too?  :oops2:


Everything in food is science. The only subjective part is when you eat it. - Alton Brown.


Setanta

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,610 posts
  • 371 thanks
390
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Reading: historical fiction, fantasy, Sci-Fi
    Movies
    Gardening
    Birding

Posted 13 April 2020 - 04:50 PM

Borg and Lizard people??

 

Please don't mix your conspiracy theories with Star Trek.


-Setanta         

 

 

 


SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 4,668 posts
  • 1140 thanks
1,133
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Just when I thought I was out - They pulled me back in!!!

Posted 13 April 2020 - 04:52 PM

I'm pretty sure it is shut down. There is nothing on there. Or restricted in the U.S too?  :oops2:

 

I just confirmed with our domain provider, there was a glitch caused by an external source, so I reset it.  Here's the direct link just in case it comes up again as not working.

 

Interesting enough we moved back to the US from Panama and our friends in Panama can not gain access to a number of websites and youtube video's that are on the same subject - truth is never popular in a world of lies.  I told them to get VPN and now they can get everything.

 

http://glennostercon...2020-false-flag


All the Best,

 

All Rights Reserved,

Without Prejudice,

Glenn Oster.

Glenn Oster Consulting, LLC -

SQF System Development | Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant

Martha's Vineyard Island, MA - Restored Republic

http://www.GCEMVI.XYZ

http://www.GlennOster.com

 


SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 4,668 posts
  • 1140 thanks
1,133
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Just when I thought I was out - They pulled me back in!!!

Posted 13 April 2020 - 04:53 PM

Borg and Lizard people??

 

Please don't mix your conspiracy theories with Star Trek.

Thank you, that was funny!


All the Best,

 

All Rights Reserved,

Without Prejudice,

Glenn Oster.

Glenn Oster Consulting, LLC -

SQF System Development | Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant

Martha's Vineyard Island, MA - Restored Republic

http://www.GCEMVI.XYZ

http://www.GlennOster.com

 


SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 4,668 posts
  • 1140 thanks
1,133
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Just when I thought I was out - They pulled me back in!!!

Posted 13 April 2020 - 04:59 PM

I hope you feel better. Could be seasonal flu or just a bad cold.

 

Have you ever had a flu shot?


All the Best,

 

All Rights Reserved,

Without Prejudice,

Glenn Oster.

Glenn Oster Consulting, LLC -

SQF System Development | Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant

Martha's Vineyard Island, MA - Restored Republic

http://www.GCEMVI.XYZ

http://www.GlennOster.com

 


Setanta

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,610 posts
  • 371 thanks
390
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Reading: historical fiction, fantasy, Sci-Fi
    Movies
    Gardening
    Birding

Posted 13 April 2020 - 05:06 PM

I hope you feel better. Could be seasonal flu or just a bad cold.

 

Have you ever had a flu shot?

 

Do you advise it or not? :rofl2:   That's a No Win situation right here, I am sure

 

Also stop using the rape analogy for people who don't agree with you. It is disingenuous at best.

 

 I've asked you for reasons there would be a hoax, and I get no answer. You provide shady witness and put the burden of watching terribly amateur videos as your 'proof'.  Show me some evidence, not in video form and I will consider your POV.


Edited by Setanta, 13 April 2020 - 05:07 PM.

-Setanta         

 

 

 


Thanked by 4 Members:

dgt39

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 34 posts
  • 7 thanks
8
Neutral

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom

Posted 14 April 2020 - 08:04 AM

Wow! And I thought I was in for a boring Tuesday morning at my desk! Cannot wait for the next post. Keep them coming guys.



Dr.Des

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 41 posts
  • 17 thanks
2
Neutral

  • Ireland
    Ireland
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 April 2020 - 08:33 AM

Wow, the last place I expected conspiracy drivel was on this website. I had to double-check the date make sure it wasn't some April fools prank.

 

I think it's best if we stick to facts on here, science deniers are not qualified to give advice on food safety, which after all is why we come to this forum in the first place.

The OP is entitled to believe his fantasy, work away, have fun with it but perhaps not on this site. I'm surprised the site moderators are tolerating what is a blatant bid to drive up clicks to the ops website.



Thanked by 1 Member:

zanorias

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 811 posts
  • 245 thanks
167
Excellent

  • Wales
    Wales
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:Motorcycling, Food Safety, Science, Paddleboarding, Space

Posted 14 April 2020 - 08:58 AM

Hi Dr Des,

 

I quite agree with you on the conspiracies/science denying side of things - as you can probably tell from my posts in this thread - and I too was concerned about how such discussion could affect the credibility of a site with a wealth of professional food safety information often science based.

 

That's why this specific one thread in the 'General Community Chat' has been made; to re-direct any conspiracy/off-topic Covid posts from the 47 other threads focusing on serious food safety Covid related questions in the designated Coronavirus Support and Discussion section of the forum. I've seen the moderators move irrelevant/questionable posts from those topics to this one, and also removing posts that go over the top/get too personal. At the end of the day this is a community as well as a resource for food safety & quality information, so it needs to be a careful balance between things getting out of hand/overly unprofessional and a dictator style moderation where opposing views are suppressed without discussion. Personally it concerns me that the whole conspiracy/hoax stuff being pushed will undermine the medical advice and harm our fight against the virus, and these views are already mentioned in the media, but I'm glad that in this thread at least the reader is able to see, within the OP and subsequent replies, the arguements made for each side and can make up their own mind on what to believe.



Thanked by 2 Members:

Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,835 posts
  • 1363 thanks
884
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 14 April 2020 - 09:54 AM

as admin I say we can discuss off topic and even controversial ideas, but the compromise on this subject is that this topic is quarantined in the off-topic chat and any stray hoax posts in other threads get removed or if in context they are added here. 

 

So, go ahead and debate the root cause of Covid-19, keep it here and keep it non-personal.  We all have our opinions.

 

Zanorias thank you so much for explaining it, much appreciated. :clap:

 

Regards,

Simon


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


GMO

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,849 posts
  • 726 thanks
236
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom

Posted 14 April 2020 - 11:46 AM

I never expected to see a thread like this on here.

 

There are interesting questions.  One, for example is in 2015 the flu vaccine, at least in the UK was only about 30% effective and there were over 20,000 additional deaths that year, not all, but most due to flu.  We didn't see that in the same way.  Why?

 

Well there are good reasons not to.  COVID 19 is more contagious, partly because some people are asymptomatic, partly because people who do go on to severe symptoms are initially asymptomatic.  This means it spreads hard and fast.  20,000 may be where we get to in the UK but only because of the controls we've put in place.

 

I sensed a flippancy in my peer group team around it to start with.  Estimates vary and will only ever be accurate once everybody is tested but initial reports had it at around 1-2% mortality.  We have 1000 people on my site.  I said to my team, are you ready for 10-20 of our team to die?  You see, that's the problem.  Low death rates are one thing in theory but when the 1-2% are people you care about, it's very different.  When one of my team got it and was in hospital, I can tell you my fear and my tears were very real.

 

I get that this kind of lock down cannot continue forever and there is a difficult balancing act to be had.  The economic impact of this close down is catastrophic and will kill people.  Cancer operations and chemotherapy has been stopped.  That will kill people.  The isolation will drive up mental health disorders.  That will kill people.  It's not simple.  It's really not simple at all.

 

In the meantime, I'm doing what I do, working as a key worker, making food for the nation and helping support people like my sister who works for the NHS.  Let us not succumb, as sadly so many others have, to irrationality.  We're scientists.



Thanked by 3 Members:

Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 20,542 posts
  • 5665 thanks
1,545
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 14 April 2020 - 10:11 PM

Hi GMO

 

Scientists ?

 

UK Flu vaccine  effectiveness in 2015 was rather better than 30% unless maybe referring to the over 65s. Generally - 

 

Attached File  flu vaccine.png   119.67KB   3 downloads

 

 

Afaik the UK are  maintaining  their, seemingly,  uniformly negative opinion on the Public use of masks. Despite CDC/WHO (grudgingly?) changing course somewhat.

 

I'm curious as to whether this option was factored in to any of the Predictive Models in use.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


GMO

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,849 posts
  • 726 thanks
236
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom

Posted 15 April 2020 - 06:04 AM

Hi GMO

Scientists ?

UK Flu vaccine effectiveness in 2015 was rather better than 30% unless maybe referring to the over 65s. Generally -

flu vaccine.png


Afaik the UK are maintaining their, seemingly, uniformly negative opinion on the Public use of masks. Despite CDC/WHO (grudgingly?) changing course somewhat.

I'm curious as to whether this option was factored in to any of the Predictive Models in use.


https://www.theguard...life-expectancy

"The vaccine was estimated to work in just 34% of cases in lab tests, compared with a more typical past effectiveness of 50%, due to genetic “drift” in the flu virus."

But that was not my point. If you read on, I point out COVID 19 is more infectious so if only 20,000 died we'd be doing very well.

On the mask point, the view the UK government has taken, is, to my mind pragmatic. There is no evidence that the masks most people wear work. Secondly where they do work is to protect others from the wearer but ask a wearer why they're wearing a mask and they think it's to protect them. Thirdly people wearing a mask tend to rely on it. This is particularly the case in Britain where we are so used to relying on PPE rather than following rules. I've seen this is real life with people wearing rubbish, poorly fitting masks, then standing shoulder to shoulder rather than 2m apart. But lastly, and perhaps most importantly, some genuine, decent N95 masks are being bought by the public and this is putting pressure on supply meaning the NHS can't get as many as they need. I'd rather my sister has masks on the COVID wards she's visiting every day of the week than me in a food factory. Did you know that the US basically outbid Germany recently on a consignment of masks Germany had already agreed to pay for basically as they were being put on the plane? That's the world we're living in.

I'm not saying masks won't become part of a strategy long term. What I am saying is widespread wearing of them could have the potential to cause more harm than good right now. Also the WHO, to my knowledge, have not changed their advice.


GMO

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,849 posts
  • 726 thanks
236
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom

Posted 15 April 2020 - 06:05 AM

Hi GMO

Scientists ?

UK Flu vaccine effectiveness in 2015 was rather better than 30% unless maybe referring to the over 65s. Generally -

flu vaccine.png


Afaik the UK are maintaining their, seemingly, uniformly negative opinion on the Public use of masks. Despite CDC/WHO (grudgingly?) changing course somewhat.

I'm curious as to whether this option was factored in to any of the Predictive Models in use.


Apologies, I should have said, I was talking about the flu season ending in 2015 so 2014-2015. Your graph doesn't cover that period.


kettlecorn

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 131 posts
  • 45 thanks
47
Excellent

  • United States
    United States

Posted 15 April 2020 - 10:40 AM

What makes the entire premise of this thread offensive, speaking as someone writing from the U.S., is not the science denial, which is itself its own topic, but the fact that as of 29 February one death had occurred in the U.S. because of COVID-19 and, as I'm writing this, according to the CSSE at Johns Hopkins, there are 609,516 confirmed cases, with 26,057 deaths. That is more than three times the number of confirmed cases in Spain, with 174,860. Italy has fewer confirmed cases than Spain but more deaths, 162,488 cases and 21,067. Taking into account that the U.S. hasn't been testing at the rate of other countries, I don't think it's hard to imagine the death and hospitalization rate in the U.S. will skyrocket soon, with no clear end in sight.

 

And, again, actual people have to show up to work every day even in these circumstances on the front lines as essential employees. They have families and loved ones who are vulnerable. I don't think it's hard to see why more than a few of us are impatient with the idea this is a hoax. 

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html



Thanked by 3 Members:

GMO

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,849 posts
  • 726 thanks
236
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom

Posted 15 April 2020 - 01:48 PM

 I don't think it's hard to see why more than a few of us are impatient with the idea this is a hoax. 

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

 

:clap:

 

The clapping hand guy is a bit too smiley all things considered but couldn't agree more.



LostMyMind

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 91 posts
  • 60 thanks
29
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 April 2020 - 02:45 PM

To Admins:

 

I realize that traffic to your site is financially beneficial.  And I realize and appreciate that you strive to accommodate a wide range of opinions on this free and public forum.  I have issue with the fact that this topic is allowed to remain (anywhere) on this site.  It is the antithesis to a reliance on science that we, as food safety professionals, should be utilizing. Even more importantly, it has nothing to do with food safety.

 

People visiting to this site for legitimate reasons may well choose to leave because of threads of this nature.  There are lots of places on the internet where this person can tout and discuss their "statements".  A forum for food safety shouldn't be one of those places.  You are diminishing the good that this site does through its promotion of food safety in allowing this thread (or any others like it) to remain.  And putting the thread into a "general chat" area doesn't prevent it from showing up to everyone who visits the site.

 

Personally, I'll visit here less and rely more on other methodologies in the future.  If this isn't a professional forum focused on food safety, I don't have time to waste coming here.  

 

Thank you for your time.  I know that you have a difficult job.

 

Sincerely,

LostMyMind

 



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,835 posts
  • 1363 thanks
884
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:02 PM

Hello LostMyMind, it is true traffic to a website site is beneficial, although not always financially. I can tell you this one topic is not and will not be doing anything in that respect.

99.9% of topics on the forums are on-topic and we have one forum for off-topic discussion. If members want to debate this issue they can and if they do not they can simply ignore it and not read it.

I'm sorry because of this one topic in the many thousands that exist here you feel that it is unprofessional and you will no longer be able to visit the site because of this.

I believe in freedom of speech as long as it is not hateful or personal, so on that basis I have left it, though I'm not saying I am correct. Other members tell me if I should hit delete or let it run.

Regards,
Simon

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


wtheriot

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 58 posts
  • 25 thanks
34
Excellent

  • United States
    United States

Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:45 PM

Hello LostMyMind, it is true traffic to a website site is beneficial, although not always financially. I can tell you this one topic is not and will not be doing anything in that respect.

99.9% of topics on the forums are on-topic and we have one forum for off-topic discussion. If members want to debate this issue they can and if they do not they can simply ignore it and not read it.

I'm sorry because of this one topic in the many thousands that exist here you feel that it is unprofessional and you will no longer be able to visit the site because of this.

I believe in freedom of speech as long as it is not hateful or personal, so on that basis I have left it, though I'm not saying I am correct. Other members tell me if I should hit delete or let it run.

Regards,
Simon

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I too am a believer in free speech. However, i do realize that freedom can have a price. If I tell my boss he is an idiot or if i give him misleading information, I am likely to be terminated.

This forum is a useful tool for Food Safety guidance from one another, I do not believe it has room for "Hoax" discussions. This type of discussion makes the forum look unprofessional. I have referred corporate officers to this site before and now I would be embarrassed if they looked through it and found that thread, especailly the enormous costs we have occurred due to this "hoax"..

Just my two cents.



pHruit

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,072 posts
  • 849 thanks
537
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Composing/listening to classical music, electronics, mountain biking, science, sarcasm

Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:51 PM

I believe in freedom of speech as long as it is not hateful or personal, so on that basis I have left it, though I'm not saying I am correct. Other members tell me if I should hit delete or let it run.

I've got a lot of respect for your position on this, Simon.

When even the likes of Facebook, Youtube etc are pulling posts/videos/stories then it's quite clear that free speech is under threat, and even the most staunch defenders of this are apparently getting a bit nervous and caving in without court orders, which is somewhat unprecedented (a bit like everything in the last few months!). Albeit this is perhaps for their own purposes - a pragmatist would argue that the position of the web giants is one that is necessary for their business models to be feasible without employing millions of people to "fact check", and the reality of the position at the moment is such that they (a) need to keep their business viable and (b) avoid engendering lots of hostility from their products, sorry, I think I meant from their "customers" ;)

 

To be completely honest, I am rather surprised to see this thread spring up here, and I'd been reticent to comment in it, in part on the basis that adding one more voice to the otherwise near-unanimous chorus against the hoax idea seemed like it would accomplish very little. It does seem rather at odds with the rest of the tone, and calibre of information and discussion elsewhere on the site.

 

I'd also be concerned that IFSQN's credibility amongst non-members could have a detrimental effect elsewhere. I see it in the same way as the anti-vax lobby, to an extent - if I am searching for justification for my scientifically questionable (at best) viewpoint, and I stumble across a source that is reputable and full of apparently knowledgeable people, I may take information from there as having considerable weight in supporting my view, even if this information is scattered amongst lots of more rational counterarguments. Is there therefore a risk that other people might stumble across this and consider it a credible source of information to support a fringe view on otherwise well-established science? Seems possible...

 

Obviously this then raise the question as to whether websites have a moral obligation to protect the public from their own lack of knowledge (or outright stupidity, in some cases), and does that outweigh the individual's obligation to take responsibility for their own actions? Only IFSQN can make this decision about where their site sits in this argument. I don't envy them that decision, as there probably isn't a right answer!

I'm a big supporter of personal freedoms, and believe that everyone should have the absolute maximum possible freedom to do anything they wish, as long as it does not cause detriment to the wellbeing of others. This is where I see the issue here being more complex, as ignoring the advice on Covid19 is an exceptionally selfish act - we should be free to take risks of our own, that only affect us, but it is demonstrably the case here that if I choose to ignore the advice, the risk being taken is potentially very much at the expense of others.

 

I will say that it is a jarring to see such derisible "science" appear here. With the greatest respect to Glenn, who has spent many hours sharing his considerable expertise on auditing and FSMS systems, the stuff about viral transmission is abject nonsense. Given that viral transmission via food is something that at least some of us need to be concerned about as part of our profession (see e.g. norovirus, Hep A etc), it does seem particularly incongruous - really it's not that far removed from claiming that I don't believe in Salmonella transmission by food, and therefore stating that people don't need to cook chicken before eating it - such a statement could perhaps been seen to slightly lower the credibility of the forum. It wouldn't affect my use of it, but I've been doing this long enough to have a reasonable sense for what is credible and what isn't, and I'll go and cross-check "facts" anyway. Might have a different impact on those starting out their careers though.

 

One option that might give a best-of-both (or least worst? ;) ) approach to the dilemma could be adjusting the visibility of the off topic section? I've no idea if your underlying forum software supports it, but I use a music forum where the off-topic section is not publicly visible; it's only accessible to members who are logged in. This would allow the discussion to continue (the merits of which are perhaps a separate question), but at least pull it out of the publicly visible part of the site.

 

The other option would be to consider where the thread is going and if it actually serves any purpose. I've seen other forums take the view that their purpose is x, and as the discussion at hand isn't about x then it's entirely reasonable to delete a thread. Again it's your call whether to apply that here, but do any of us think that this discussion is going somewhere?



Thanked by 3 Members:

zanorias

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 811 posts
  • 245 thanks
167
Excellent

  • Wales
    Wales
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:Motorcycling, Food Safety, Science, Paddleboarding, Space

Posted 15 April 2020 - 05:14 PM

Some good points made above. I can somewhat relate to wtheriot's point about referrals - this morning I actually recommended the site to a new colleague who is beginning a career in food and aspires to become a Technical Manager. Whilst I know full well myself that this site has a vast amount to offer such a person, I also hope that if she does have a look that she doesn't open this thread as a first impression. Perhaps that will be the case and perhaps with others also who can't be personally assured that this one thread is the minority. pHruit's suggestion above about the thread being visible to active/older members would potentially resolve this and is something I would vote for if it is possible to do.

 

I was worried weeks ago when the OP was a reply in another thread about the effect this could have on the forum users,  so was glad to see all such posts removed from those threads and 'quarantined' in this one, as explained in my last post.

Whilst on one hand it would be good to simply delete the topic and any future hoax-related posts, on the other I'd wonder whether that it more or less helpful in achieving what we want to do, which for me personally is minimise the dangerous impact of the conspiracies. Previously I'd been optimistic on providing reasonable and science-based responses to the allegations and perhaps changing minds on the matter, though over time I begin to wonder whether that is actually achievable, and whether it's unrealistic to expect reasonable consideration of evidence against the conspiracies, when the theories themselves severly lack reason. Maybe it is a better option to accept that some people will undoubtedly continue to push the hoax claims despite any barrieir of logic or reasoning, and therefore to just minimse their audience.

 

It is a difficult decision. Personally I support that the forum has a  'general' section that doesn't need to be food related. There are a multitude of food safety/quality sections to cover all topics, and of course every individual has their choice of where abouts the want to visit and spend their time. Considering pHruit's question of "where are we going", I think it's important to take into account everyone's comments - there is indeed a chorus of evidence based anti-hoax responses, but is that enough to have a positive effect? I hoped so previously though I start to wonder whether you'd have more luck getting the pet cat to make the dinner than trying to get one of these conspiracy theorists consider a sound evidence base.



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,835 posts
  • 1363 thanks
884
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 15 April 2020 - 05:38 PM

Thank you all so much for your input.  It is very much valued and appreciated.

 

I have checked and I can exclude specific forum categories and its topics/posts from appearing in the 'Recent Topics' list at the top of the forums.  For now I will do this and discuss internally what further action to take, if any.  At least for now those who wish to continue the discussion can do so and will know where to find the topic, whilst reducing the prominence of the topic to newer members.

 

Regards,

Simon


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


Thanked by 3 Members:


Share this

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users