6 replies to this topic

[just me]

I have a dilema here and hope that some would be able to offer opinions.

Say we have a plant that produces sterilized canned and UHT vegetable-based products. HACCP system was established and implemented.

Then the plant started a new line on sterilized canned meat-based products, which has effluent of washing and blanching water. But the drain is covered at situated on the external part of the building.
Both line share the same premise but not the same line or same equipment. The only exception is that both line would share the same equipment for the process step of sealing of the can, retorting, cooling and labelling of the can. There could be only one line running each time, the veg-based line could not run concurrently with the meat-based line.

I understand that the microbial flora would be different between the two lines, but in this situation, how high would be the risk of one cross-contaminating the other? Would the risk be so high that the vege-based line would be greatly affected? Would it be adequate if we review the Hazard analysis of the vege-based line and includes the meat microbial flora as hazards, as well as control measures?? Would it be adequate if we sanitized the equipment (can sealer, cooling tank) between the process lines?

Would the risk of the effluent cross-contaminating the vege-based line be high when the drain is actually outside of the building mostly covered?

Appreciate help, any help.

Thanx and Cheers,

[Simon]

Can anyone help JM with this problem?

[Charles.C]

Dear Just Me,
I am not meat or vegetable person so comments are free to be negated by actual users.
There may be a traditional block on processing/storing them alongside in the same premises, such is usually the case in seafood /chicken due to the latter's notorious micro.credentials. Need an industry comment for this point.
Seems you're finished products are all classified as high risk.
I presume you are taking in raw, semi or unprocessed materials of some kind ? This would require some fairly extensive screening of different processing areas I suppose (I know this is the case in raw/cooked/frozen items) and this will determine potential cross-contaminations within the lines. It will depend on your specific arrangement.
Drainage - again it depends on the arrangement. Are the meat/veg. lines sharing common internal lines prior to external drain ?
Specifications are relevant but so is an acceptable layout.
Hope this is a starter at least,
Rgds / Charles.C

Added later
I should have added that I am also not (recently) a canning person and never a UHT operator. My initial query on compatibility was self-answered when I remembered my occasional consumption of canned beef stew.
You may well be fully familiar with this already -
With respect to 'contamination' prior to canning retorting I came across the extract below whose significance is subsequently detailed in an example for canned beef stew. May be of some interest -

Regulatory Provision for Addressing Microbiological Hazards of
Commercially Sterile Products
USDA FSIS states in 9 CFR 417.2 (b) (3) that 'HACCP plans for thermally
processed/ commercially sterile products do not have to address the food safety
hazards associated with microbiological contamination if the product is produced
in accordance with the requirements of part 318, subpart G, or part 381, subpart
X, of this chapter' [9 CFR Chapter III]. Thus, even though microbiological
hazards exist with these products, FSIS decided that these are eliminated by
complying with the canning regulations for meat and poultry, which are based on
HACCP concepts. Processors of canned meat and poultry products must still
develop HACCP plans to address chemical and physical hazards that are
reasonably likely to occur.
The ref. is
www.fsis.usda.gov/PDF/FSRE_SS_8HazardsControls.pdf

Edited by Charles.C, 14 July 2006 - 12:08 PM.

[just me]

Dear Charles C.,

Thanks for offering help on this matter.

The vege-based and meat-based processing areas are segregated in different rooms. Both line may share the same transferring route but never at the same time as the lines could not run concurrently. The drainage is also separated, except when it reach the external drain outside the processing building, that is where all internal drain leads to.
The chicken is pre-cooked and frozen, I guess that lowered the microbiological risks compared to having raw chicken as input, but no doubt still high risk. The raw materials are stored separately.

However, the external drainage (although covered) is situated about 20feet from the building where preliminary cleaning of the vege is carried out. The concern would most likely be there.

The reference looks promising. I will definately study it to check whether there is anything to help.

Do you think if we sanitize everything, including the drain after each processing section, and carry out swab test every now and then for microbes related to poultry, it would be more controlled?

Personally, I do not think a big issue out of it because in an industrial kitchen, the meat and the vege sections are also separated by rooms, and share the same "common corridor" for transferring.
But we fear that some clients, or auditors might be stressing on it a little too much.

Any auditors out there to give some view?

Thanks a million, Charles C.

Cheers,

[Simon]

Any auditors out there to give some view?

BTW thanks a million Charles C.

[Witch]

Personally, I do not think a big issue out of it because in an industrial kitchen, the meat and the vege sections are also separated by rooms, and share the same "common corridor" for transferring.
But we fear that some clients, or auditors might be stressing on it a little too much.

Hallo JustMe,
what about your FMEA? Do you find anything that could go wrong? Did you do your validations? If it is UHT, are your initial counts low enough to reduce below you limit?
If you did it right, you could demonstrate your decisions to every client and it will work!
Don´t mind, its the "new spirit" even with the auditors
See 22K!
Have a nice evening
Andrea

[just me]

what about your FMEA? Do you find anything that could go wrong? Did you do your validations? If it is UHT, are your initial counts low enough to reduce below you limit?
If you did it right, you could demonstrate your decisions to every client and it will work!

Hi, Andrea,

We have yet to begun on the FMEA, because the processing line has yet to materialize. We were worrying on the design of the facility, hence the debate whether the drainage would affect the other vege-based line.

Glad to say that in the end, the management have decided to redirect the drainage. And we have decided to carry out microbiological tests on a few points in the vege-based processing line just to validate that there is very low risk of cross-contamination from the meat-based line.
And yeah, it includes sampling for microbiological test on the vege-based WIP just before retort to study whether the level remains adequately low for the original retort parameters to be effetive.

Thanks for pointing out the validation part. It has to be carried out, irregardless of the design, moreso if the design may not be ideally "unilateral".

Dear Charles C.,

Thanks for your input.

Cheers,