9 replies to this topic

[HelenW]

Afternoon all, 

 

I'm after some advice with some results for mould identification.

 

Background: 

 

Finished product (Hot Chocolate Powder - just add hot water), failed mould test (Spec <1000cfu/g in line with European Pharmacopeia, Results = 8400, 3000cfu/g).

 

Long standing product, no previous failures. 

 

Ingredients used sent for analysis with a failure reported on Organic Cinnamon (Supplier spec 1000cfu/g, results >3000cfu/g). 

 

NC sent to supplier - who has stated it's fine, it's ok to be out of spec, and their spec is based on it prior to being shipped from CoO and therefore would expect material to be higher. However, due to never having a failure, and the material out of spec I'm challenging them further. 

 

We have got the mould identified with our laboratory who has come back with the following types of mould identified:

 

Mould 1 – Aspergillus niger

Mould 2 – Syncephalastrum racemosum

Mould 3 – Aspergillus tamarii

Mould 4 – Aspergillus flavus

Mould 5 – TBC

Mould 6 – Aspergillus fumigatus

Mould 7 – Aspergillus fumigatus

Mould 8 - Emericella nidulans

 

Is there a microbiology specialist who can give me some guidance on what to do next? Is the finished product safe to sell or would these moulds be harmful to health? With the powder being added to boiling water, would this negate the out of spec issue? 

 

We are obviously reviewing the spec level - but I need to justify it having a higher spec. 

 

Many thanks, Helen.

[Scampi]

We would need to know the levels for each type as some are more concerning than others

 

 

Obviously the cinnamon vendor isn't sterilizing the spice at all or this would have never happened----suggest you find a new supplier altogether 

Edited by Scampi, 15 July 2022 - 01:12 PM.

[juanolea1]

Hello,

 

Did you test for Mycotoxyns (mainly aflotoxyns)? Rapid Elisa kit for testing for Aflotoxyns are widely available from some major scientific vendors: https://www.ams.usda...pidTestKits.pdf. Also, you should consider a kill step (a roasting step maybe) prior to using the cinnamon for the final mix?

[pHruit]

Not a micro specialist, but have been through a similar process.

Presumably the typing work has been done by an external lab using something like MALDITOF, and has come back with a likelihood % match for each of these? (i.e. they're not necessarily all present, but rather one or more are probably present, with some corresponding sequencing match in the high 90% region).

 

Moulds is an interesting one in the UK. I don't think they're included in any of the micro guidance for RTE foods, and generally aren't likely to be considered pathogenic in their own right, but I am aware of recalls triggered by regulatory bodies in the UK taking the view that mould growth in a product could lead to mycotoxin presence at concerning levels. Aspergillus is one of the genera whose members can produce mycotoxins, so this might be a relevant consideration.

 

The mycotoxin limits for the UK/EU are generally set for raw materials (with a few exceptions), and in your case I don't believe that there are any specific mycotoxin limits for cinnamon component. Nonetheless there is probably a general obligation under e.g. the Food Safety Act for the levels to not be potentially injurious, but exactly what that level would be is something that probably only the regulatory bodies could determine. You could potentially get some analysis done on the cinnamon if you have remaining stock / a retained sample of the raw material, but whether the numbers will be meaningful without a defined limit is another question. If you're lucky then a "not detected" result would of course be quite helpful

If you have a good relationship with your EHO then they might be a useful person to have a chat with.

 

Similarly if you're members of Campden then I'd have a discussion with them.

 

To be honest I think you're right to push the supplier. What form are you buying it in, i.e. is it realistically expected to be capable of supporting growth or is it a dry powder or similar such that the water activity should preclude this?

 

For what it's worth, on a personal level I don't feel the product is likely to be unsafe, but alas that is not quite the same as building a defensible due-diligence position

[Charles.C]

Afternoon all, 

 

I'm after some advice with some results for mould identification.

 

Background: 

 

Finished product (Hot Chocolate Powder - just add hot water), failed mould test (Spec <1000cfu/g in line with European Pharmacopeia, Results = 8400, 3000cfu/g).

 

Long standing product, no previous failures. 

 

Ingredients used sent for analysis with a failure reported on Organic Cinnamon (Supplier spec 1000cfu/g, results >3000cfu/g). 

 

NC sent to supplier - who has stated it's fine, it's ok to be out of spec, and their spec is based on it prior to being shipped from CoO and therefore would expect material to be higher. However, due to never having a failure, and the material out of spec I'm challenging them further. 

 

We have got the mould identified with our laboratory who has come back with the following types of mould identified:

 

Mould 1 – Aspergillus niger

Mould 2 – Syncephalastrum racemosum

Mould 3 – Aspergillus tamarii

Mould 4 – Aspergillus flavus

Mould 5 – TBC

Mould 6 – Aspergillus fumigatus

Mould 7 – Aspergillus fumigatus

Mould 8 - Emericella nidulans

 

Is there a microbiology specialist who can give me some guidance on what to do next? Is the finished product safe to sell or would these moulds be harmful to health? With the powder being added to boiling water, would this negate the out of spec issue? 

 

We are obviously reviewing the spec level - but I need to justify it having a higher spec. 

 

Many thanks, Helen.

Hi Helen,

 

is the spec. accurately quoted ?

 

I noticed this thread with max 100cfu/g being mentioned -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ct/#entry130029

 

also this spec. -

 

 micro. specification - cocoa powder.pdf   204.32KB   15 downloads

 

Probably need to measure some other parameters, eg moisture, Aw, APC etc.

 

Here is a detailed nmMc micro.spec. -

 micro. specs - chocolate.pdf   58.67KB   8 downloads

(sourced from this publication/monograph -

 micro. physicochemical factors in quality-safety of chocolate,cocoa byproducts,2015.pdf   1.55MB   11 downloads

Edited by Charles.C, 15 July 2022 - 05:03 PM.
added

[G M]

...

Finished product (Hot Chocolate Powder - just add hot water), failed mould test (Spec <1000cfu/g in line with European Pharmacopeia, Results = 8400, 3000cfu/g).

 

Long standing product, no previous failures. 

 

Ingredients used sent for analysis with a failure reported on Organic Cinnamon (Supplier spec 1000cfu/g, results >3000cfu/g). 

 

NC sent to supplier - who has stated it's fine, it's ok to be out of spec, and their spec is based on it prior to being shipped from CoO and therefore would expect material to be higher. However, due to never having a failure, and the material out of spec I'm challenging them further. 

 

...

 

 

Is this specification part of your purchase agreement?

 

If the specifications you agreed to purchase under were 1000cfu/g maximum and what they sent you was outside that, I would make them cover the cost of any intermediate or finished goods the out of spec ingredient was used in and refund for any remaining stock (assuming your process does not have a possible lethality step that could otherwise render it acceptable, for which they could then be liable for the remediation instead).

 

If your packaging does not already include instructions requiring the consumer to cook it to render it safe for consumption, don't count on it.

[Tony-C]

Hi Helen,

 

To add to previous posts, a specification is for material/product at end of shelf life, not the start of it.

 

I wouldn’t be thinking of taking a chance with the finished product. I would look to hold it and make a claim from the supplier. As per Juan’s post there is potential for there to be Aflatoxins/Mycotoxins in there.

 

Regarding Organic Cinnamon results >3000cfu/g. I would get the laboratory to get an actual count so another dilution or two. I am assuming that all your other ingredients are <1000cfu/g.

 

As per pHruit’s post, if you are not getting anywhere with your supplier I would contact Campden* who have previously assisted me with a claim against a supplier where we subsequently received £25k from the supplier.

 

*Even if you are not members they should be able to help, it just costs more. I would ask them to analyse the finished products and ingredients and confirm the source of the finished product failure.

 

Kind regards,

Tony

[Charles.C]

Clearly the supplier's comment regarding changes having occurred during transport are irrelevant from a specification POV  unless the (presumably agreed) specification included some related tolerance. Offhand the (apparently atypical with respect to previous lots) data often simply indicates a problem somewhere in the supply chain.                                               .

CoO = ?

As yet, it's sort of unclear to me what the specific product (or products ?) actually is (are). ?

Similarly unclear how the specification is actually defined/implemented, eg number of components/specifications ? how many samples ? Average result ? nmMc format ?

Quantitative micro. results can also be sensitive to the specific method of analysis (stated in the specification?) which as yet is unknown.

 

Not my area of expertise but there are some comments over mycotoxins in my attachment in post 5 however I noticed other cocoa-related papers with  expanded discussions on toxigenic consequences from a mould occurrence POV. (One was for chocolate cake). Presumably specific analytical evidence is needed to progress much further though.

 

JFI, in addition to some genuine discrepancies, I have also encountered over time various complaints/rejections of product due to (non-safety related) quantitative micro. data exceeding specifications. The differences were subsequently demonstrated as being due to varying methods of analysis at production/reception. Since the (agreed) specifications typically  did not include analytical methodologies, extended and bitter arguments often ensued.

[HelenW]

Hello,

 

Did you test for Mycotoxyns (mainly aflotoxyns)? Rapid Elisa kit for testing for Aflotoxyns are widely available from some major scientific vendors: https://www.ams.usda...pidTestKits.pdf. Also, you should consider a kill step (a roasting step maybe) prior to using the cinnamon for the final mix?

 

We haven't tested for mycotoxins, but I can ask for it to be done. However, as this is only at the start of it's life, could it be clear now and then develop over the shelf life of the product? 

 

We don't have the capability of roasting - we purely blend and pack dry powders. 

[hello.fizz]

We haven't tested for mycotoxins, but I can ask for it to be done. However, as this is only at the start of it's life, could it be clear now and then develop over the shelf life of the product? 

 

We don't have the capability of roasting - we purely blend and pack dry powders. 

 

Ask the microbiologist at the lab if this is something that could be clear now and develop over time. Hopefully they can help.