9 replies to this topic

[Cäsar]

Hi there,

I am currently struggling with the operation stages confirmation in HACCP flow Diagramms.

 

Given that stages are production, cleaning and maintenance - how can I confirm a production flow diagramm during maintenance?

 

 

I am sure I miss something oot here, maybe you can help me further?

 

Thank you very much !

 

Regards

 

Cäsar

[MOHAMMED ZAMEERUDDIN]

Hi Casar,

Production flow diagram needs to confirm during actual production. This is an on-site confirmation of flow diagram.

[Cäsar]

Hi Mohammed,

I agree with what you say - but IFS says:

 

"2.2.3.4 On-site confirmation of the flow diagram:
Representatives of the HACCP team shall verify the flow diagram, by on-site verifications, at all
operation stages and shifts. Where appropriate, amendments to the diagram shall be made."

 

What is the definition of "operation stages"? IFS does not give the definition, but it seems as if the understanding is production, maintenance, cleaning, ...

[Scampi]

Your flow needs to show that maintenance could be anywhere at anytime----that is best summarized with a statement on your flow chart, same goes for your QA/QC staff

[Lynx42]

I think maintenance would be a PRP, and cleaning too?  I'm in the beginning stages of developing a HACCP Plan (storage only facility), but one thing training said is "follow the food" so maintenance and cleaning are not on my flow chart as food doesn't flow through it, but we have SOP's for both.

 

The training example had maintenance and cleaning under "controlled at" on some steps.  

 

From my notes:

What is NOT a process step?

Ordering ingredients

Testing ingredients

Cleaning the line

Calibrating the metal detector

Washing hands.

[Tony-C]

Hi Cäsar,

 

I think the term 'operational stages' is maybe confusing you, these will typically be the steps in your process flow diagram from raw material receipt through to processing, storage and distribution. 

 

Daily and seasonal variations (e.g Christmas products) need to be considered as well.

 

See this BRCGS Example Process Flow:

 

 BRCGS Example Process Flow.png   282.31KB   2 downloads

 

You will need to check all operational stages in the flow diagram.

 

Cleaning and maintenance do not need to go on the flow diagram. I do sometimes see examples where cleaning may be included, for example washing of product prior to processing or similar to step 19 Disinfection in the flow diagram above where items are cleaned/disinfected on transfer into a high-care/risk area.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[MOHAMMED ZAMEERUDDIN]

Completely agreed with Tony. He nicely explained the issue in a comprehensive manner.

[beautiophile]

I worked a certain deep in technical matter and would classify Tony's pic as "flow chart". A process flow diagram should indicate material flows and equipment layout, like in this wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia...ss_flow_diagram

 

So there are different interpretations. If a standard developer (BRCGS, SQF, etc.) doesn't give a clear difinition, debates will come among who implement the standard, e.g. ceritfied sites, consultants, auditors, trainers.

Be ready for that.

[Cäsar]

Hi Cäsar,

 

I think the term 'operational stages' is maybe confusing you, these will typically be the steps in your process flow diagram from raw material receipt through to processing, storage and distribution. 

 

Daily and seasonal variations (e.g Christmas products) need to be considered as well.

 

See this BRCGS Example Process Flow:

 

BRCGS Example Process Flow.png

 

You will need to check all operational stages in the flow diagram.

 

Cleaning and maintenance do not need to go on the flow diagram. I do sometimes see examples where cleaning may be included, for example washing of product prior to processing or similar to step 19 Disinfection in the flow diagram above where items are cleaned/disinfected on transfer into a high-care/risk area.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

Hi Tony,

thank you for that explanation - I think it is (again) a topic where auditors start to make their own interpretations ;-(

 

Maybe here is an IFS auditor who can give us insight in what IFS is expecting.

 

Best regards

 

Cäsar

[Tony-C]

I worked a certain deep in technical matter and would classify Tony's pic as "flow chart". A process flow diagram should indicate material flows and equipment layout, like in this wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia...ss_flow_diagram

 

So there are different interpretations. If a standard developer (BRCGS, SQF, etc.) doesn't give a clear difinition, debates will come among who implement the standard, e.g. ceritfied sites, consultants, auditors, trainers.

Be ready for that.

 

Hi beautiophile,

 

With respect, I have a fair amount of technical experience myself   

 

I’m afraid I can’t take the credit for that process flow diagram, it is from BRCGS Guidance and if BRCGS say it is a process flow diagram, I am not going to disagree.

 

I think you have got it the wrong/wrong way round as the Wikipedia reference states: A process flow diagram (PFD) is a diagram commonly used in chemical and process engineering to indicate the general flow of plant processes and equipment. The PFD displays the relationship between major equipment of a plant facility and does not show minor details such as piping details and designations. Another commonly used term for a PFD is flowsheet.

 

CODEX General Principles of Food Hygiene states: A flow diagram that covers all steps in the production of a specific product, including any applicable rework, should be constructed. The flow diagram should indicate all inputs, including those of ingredients and food contact materials, water, and air, if relevant.

 

The BRCGS Global Standard for Food Safety Issue 9 Glossary states:

Flow Diagram: A systematic representation of the sequence of steps or operations used in the production or manufacture of a particular food item.

 

IFS Food definition of a Flow Diagram copies the CODEX General Principles of Food Hygiene wording to the letter: A systematic representation of the sequence of steps used in the production or manufacture of food.

 

I doubt that anyone will find a reference that a food product process flow diagram needs to include cleaning or maintenance but I’d be happy to be proven wrong.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

Edited by Tony-C, 01 December 2023 - 11:40 AM.