5 replies to this topic

[RazM4tt]

Im trying to make scheduling easier for my EM program. Currently we are rotating through the zones weekly and its creating a major problem with scheduling and retesting. If I swab 4 different zones (different or same room) we send out 4 different sets of samples and run the risk of putting 4 different rooms under a re-test schedule. Im thinking of changing the method to testing all 3 zones in 1 room at the same time, but I wanted to confirm if this is scientifically sound. It seems strange (unless trying to capture the big picture status of a room) to test all the zones at 1 time. Would you ever test more than 1 zone in the same room at the same time? Thanks for the feedback! We test for APC, coliform and salmonella in zones 1-2 and zone 3 gets APC coliform salmonella and listeria.

[MDaleDDF]

Don't path test zone 1.    Either ATP, Protein, something like that.   Then test zones 2-4 at the same time.  

That's what I do.    Obviously it depends on what you're making, how you're making it, etc, so there's no hard and fast rules here, it depends on your place.  

 

There's a  few other things you mention that would scare me if I'm reading you correctly.   Firstly, are you running on this equipment before you get results?    If you are, and don't have a positive release policy, you're asking for trouble.   What if you ship food on Monday, and get a bad test result on Wednesday?   You have no choice but to recall it.    This is why ATP/Protein swabs for food contact, you get an instant go/no-go on your sanitation.   Also, if you send out finished product for testing, which I'm guessing you do, then put that product on hold in your facility until you get results.  Don't ship it until you know it's passed.

 

Secondly, you mention retesting.   Retesting for what?   In my world, there's no retesting.   You cannot erase a bad result with a retest.   If your SOP/WI says to do so, it's folly imho. 

[RazM4tt]

Don't path test zone 1.    Either ATP, Protein, something like that.   Then test zones 2-4 at the same time.  

That's what I do.    Obviously it depends on what you're making, how you're making it, etc, so there's no hard and fast rules here, it depends on your place.  

 

There's a  few other things you mention that would scare me if I'm reading you correctly.   Firstly, are you running on this equipment before you get results?    If you are, and don't have a positive release policy, you're asking for trouble.   What if you ship food on Monday, and get a bad test result on Wednesday?   You have no choice but to recall it.    This is why ATP/Protein swabs for food contact, you get an instant go/no-go on your sanitation.   Also, if you send out finished product for testing, which I'm guessing you do, then put that product on hold in your facility until you get results.  Don't ship it until you know it's passed.

 

Secondly, you mention retesting.   Retesting for what?   In my world, there's no retesting.   You cannot erase a bad result with a retest.   If your SOP/WI says to do so, it's folly imho. 

Thanks, this is great information. We are mixing and grinding powders in most cases, along with packaging and encapsulation. There is a very stringent product hold program, which is why we path test so much. Ingredients are tested, then mixed and tested again and then packaged and tested again. We basically do the same with the rooms, we ATP swab before any production, and then the EM program will do random zone 1-3 testing in the rooms. I simply need data to represent zone 1 for EM, the ATP swabbing is more involved with the release program of course with any path hits we put everything on hold. That being said, is it kosher to test zone 1-3 at the same time in the same room?

[MDaleDDF]

Thanks, this is great information. We are mixing and grinding powders in most cases, along with packaging and encapsulation. There is a very stringent product hold program, which is why we path test so much. Ingredients are tested, then mixed and tested again and then packaged and tested again. We basically do the same with the rooms, we ATP swab before any production, and then the EM program will do random zone 1-3 testing in the rooms. I simply need data to represent zone 1 for EM, the ATP swabbing is more involved with the release program of course with any path hits we put everything on hold. That being said, is it kosher to test zone 1-3 at the same time in the same room?

I don't see why it's not kosher, unless it gets in your way production wise.

Also, you're testing raw ingredients?   Why?   If you get a positive hit, they're not going to do anything for you.   They're going to point to their COA and say "It was fine when it left our building, whatever the issue is, you caused it".   I used to test raw as well but stopped some years ago.

 

If you ATP swab zone 1, I have no idea why you'd path test it as well.   Redundant.

[RazM4tt]

I don't see why it's not kosher, unless it gets in your way production wise.

Also, you're testing raw ingredients?   Why?   If you get a positive hit, they're not going to do anything for you.   They're going to point to their COA and say "It was fine when it left our building, whatever the issue is, you caused it".   I used to test raw as well but stopped some years ago.

 

If you ATP swab zone 1, I have no idea why you'd path test it as well.   Redundant.

Thanks again for the info I appreciate it. My guess for the raw testing is that we get supplies from all over the world, and we want to test for anything and everything in the ingredients, and we've found that the COA is not always reliable, so we get in legal situations with suppliers where that information is important. None of our product goes through a kill step, that would be my other guess as to why we do this. As for zone 1 path testing, its what the boss man wants.

[G M]

Because we are placing a hold status on materials linked to the testing, we always try to perform a month (fiscal period) worth of environmental testing in a single production cycle (roughly 72h).   This set of samples will cover multiple areas and contact zones.

 

The other finished goods separated by a sanitation cycle are free to continue moving through the inventory system and get shipped out to customers etc., but the ones on hold for environmental testing wait a few extra days for third party testing results, and we have to keep telling sales people NO when they ask "are we there yet"