16 replies to this topic

[PollyKBD]

Hi All, 

We have a problem, our rack washer is down and will be for a few weeks and we are hand washing all of our equipment, tools and racks. This is taking its toll on our sanitation team but things will be worse soon. Next week we are finishing a peanut butter run and will need to deep clean. 

I need suggestions! Right now I am telling them to use our degreasing chemical on the racks and then rinse and sanitize, but our sanitation manager fears that it won't get them clean. They are tossing around the idea of using a pressure washer with steam. The room it would be used in is production adjacent but not in production. I am still saying no, but I'm curious. Can this be done if the room is empty and the doors are closed (the the room gets cleaned after)? They will still follow a 3 step cleaning procedure for the racks afterwards- this is only to get that pesky peanut butter grease off. 

I need help! We can't skip this peanut butter run, we have orders waiting. 

Thanks!

 

[Scampi]

are you asking from an allergen point of view?

[PollyKBD]

I'm asking how to clean the allergens if I don't approve the pressure washer, because I know we aren't supposed to use pressure, however, I also wonder what precautions we might be able to take to permit the temporary use of the pressure washer. 

[nwilson]

If you are controlling the washroom area by closing doors and limiting traffic then what are the concerns with using a pressure washer?  I've been in plants that use these all the time with allergens and they work great.  

[PollyKBD]

I was under the impression that you should never use a pressure washer and you should never use pressurized air to clean anywhere in a food facility. 

[Scampi]

hmmmm  wonder where you got that from?   It's next to impossible to remove protein without some sort of pressure, the chemicals can only do so much

 

At every facility I've ever worked at has used pressure washers to some degree

 

Compressed air is used in dry facilities routinely

 

Is there something specific you're concerned about by using a pressure washer?  

[PollyKBD]

 

Is there something specific you're concerned about by using a pressure washer?  

Is there a specific type of pressure washer that would be acceptable? Does it need to have FDA approved hoses and parts?

Any information would be helpful. 

Thank you!!!

I'll get into the compressed air one in a separate post later, once this problem is solved. 

[Setanta]

Can you rent a pressure washer?

[nwilson]

Check these out:  

https://www.hotsy.co...kEaAm6fEALw_wcB

[MDaleDDF]

we use a normal pressure washer, and crank the water heater up to near exploding levels of heat, and it works great....

[G M]

Is there a specific type of pressure washer that would be acceptable? Does it need to have FDA approved hoses and parts?

Any information would be helpful. 

Thank you!!!

I'll get into the compressed air one in a separate post later, once this problem is solved. 

 

The pressurized water/air is just there to eliminate or reduce the amount of physical strain required from personnel.  The energy of the pressurized water/air is just replacing the "elbow grease" energy in the removal of heavy soils and cleaning chemicals.

 

After the use of the pressure washer, you will presumably be applying some sanitizer and allowing it to sit for XYZ time as recommended by the sanitizer chemical manufacturer -- so the pressure washer equipment doesn't need to be anything special, as long as its in good condition, and can stand up to what you're running through it.

[jfrey123]

What's your normal process for cleaning these trays?  It's a bummer the rack washer is down, but are there steps you take after the rack washer or does the rack washer handle cleaning and sanitizing all in one step?  I see no issue with using a pressure washer before putting them through your normal rinse and sanitizing step (if you have one).

 

I'll add on to say you may need to update your COP SSOP for cleaning these items, outlining how you decide the best way to clean when the rack washer is out of service.  You're in a decent spot to brainstorm and document the best way to clean without the rack, and whatever you validate here is worth adding to your SSOP.

[Tony-C]

Hi PollyKBD,

 

I am against using High Pressure Washers unless absolutely necessary and even then, appropriate control measures would need to be put in place to prevent the spread of contamination. I guess it would depend on the risk to your finished product, high-pressure hoses are not normally used in or near open food areas because of the potential to create aerosols and move debris.

 

Have you considered setting up an initial heavy duty washing area outside (for the pressure washing stage) and having a quick clean & disinfecting on return?

 

This was discussed in this topic and I have summarized some of the key points: Water pressure used in cleaning & sanitation

 

I would refer you to post 2 by xylough:

‘Early in my career I was working in a dairy plant where the methods of cleaning had been formed by a horrible incident the upper management had experienced a few years earlier at at a sister plant. Ice cream had become contaminated with Listeria m., and some people had died. The ramifications of the incident included restructuring of that organization and a transformation of the food safety culture. One of the policies that came out of the investigation was to never permit sanitation with high pressure.’

 

Also note this comment by kingstudruler1 in post 11:

‘No, nothing has changed ( I guess I didn't see that the original post was that old as it came up in the new content).     High pressure water can be an issue.   This forum is full of people (not those neccesarily commenting to this post) that don't have the knowledge or experience to understand its risks and use it because that's the way it was always done.  I guess that was my point.’

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[Scampi]

Tony absolutely has some valid points

 

You should never be conduction sanitation activities where food is present, regardless of method used

 

Since you mentioned the space you want to use is production adjacent, you could tarp the opening before and during the sanitation activities to mitigate any risk

 

Only you know your facility and process best

[GMO]

Aerosols are not just present when the washing is taking place but the smallest droplets then "hang" in the air.  Now we're all familiar with the impact of this with Covid 19, I'm surprised anyone ever things aerosol generating cleaning methods are a good plan.  Of course small numbers of aerosols are generated in cleaning processes but when you use a pressure washer you get loads of aerosols and then it fires the damn stuff around the room.

 

So what you'll be left with is clean equipment in a room which is absolutely riddled with your allergen and probably a whole heap of pathogens too.  Then aerosols contaminated with the same which will move out into other areas as soon as the door is open and settle onto clean equipment / people etc.

 

That would not be my approach.  Not now, not ever.  I've never seen a pressure washer used in a reputable UK food facility because it's seen as not just bad practice but "what the actual hell are you doing?" kind of bad practice.  Mostly because of the above.  It contaminates the air and the environment.  It drives debris and bacteria into any possible niches which we all know shouldn't be there but sometimes are.

 

My suggestion is to get some big old portable wash basins and scrub.  Use a foam applicator for anything you can't fit into a basin.  At the end of cleaning processes it would be good to throw away any potentially contaminated scrubbing brushes and also good due diligence to get some rapid allergen swabs (if you've not validated the clean) to make sure that there are no detectable allergenic proteins on the surfaces you've cleaned.

 

I would need a HELL of a lot of convincing that a pressure washer is better than the above.  BUT for any small detail area cleaning, a low pressure steam lance can be used but bear in mind that's still not really meant to be used for cleaning and is much better for disinfection.

Can you share what it is you're trying to clean?  That might help?  I'm imagining oven racks with flat trays and cannot imagine a thought process where I'd think a pressure washer would be right for that as things stand.

[PollyKBD]

Tony absolutely has some valid points

 

You should never be conduction sanitation activities where food is present, regardless of method used

 

Since you mentioned the space you want to use is production adjacent, you could tarp the opening before and during the sanitation activities to mitigate any risk

 

Only you know your facility and process best

there are doors and they will remain closed throughout the cleaning process. 

[GMO]

there are doors and they will remain closed throughout the cleaning process. 

 

Yes but the aerosols stay suspended for a long time.  Think hours not minutes.  And also there's the mess it makes in your room.  

Perhaps it's cultural but if I permitted that anywhere near an auditor I'd be expecting to lose my job.  It's seen as such bad practice as I've explained in my previous post.

I'm just giggling to myself about the time I once used a pressure washer on my patio.  At the end my patio was pristine.  I was covered in gunk which I expected, then I looked up and realised my windows were too.