5 replies to this topic

[matthewcc]

Have you ever heard of a device called F*pper 0 (didn't want to say the actual name) that can circumvent keypad entry devices, to gain entry to a building or restricted area, and how much of a food defense risk would this be?

 

We manufacture dietary supplements in the United States and are under 21 CFR Part 121. A coworker let me know about this device, but I am not sure how much risk it would be, since a person gaining entry would have to go through multiple keypads.

[Brothbro]

I haven't personally heard of it, but I wouldn't doubt that it exists! In the general word of security, I think it's well understood that no lock is perfect. A risk assessment of a key-pad entry door shouldn't consider it 100% secure, and not only because of devices you've mentioned. Really the golden rule of security is that nothing is 100% secure. I'd consider the following when we're talking about this device though:

 

- The ubiquity of this device: how easy is it to obtain? Are there any reports of this device being used to access secure business previously, and how often? It may not have a large impact if the device is very hard to obtain or use, or if it doesn't have a history of use in your region.

 

- How much does your facility's security depend solely on key-pad entry? Typically, facilities have a number of security measures in place that offer some kind of redundancy in your security. For example, even if someone were to get through your key-pad door during work hours, employees could be identifiable by their badge or other company identification means. After hours your facility may have motion alarms or cameras in place that would detect someone getting into restricted areas. This hurdle-effect in security would lessen the risk posed by a such a device. 

 

In short, I don't think this kind of device makes key-pad entry doors obsolete. But it may motivate facilities that rely solely on key-pad entry to modernize their security a bit.

 

Would be very interested if anyone else has had any run-ins with this kind of device at their facility.

Edited by Brothbro, 08 April 2025 - 05:40 PM.

[matthewcc]

I looked it up and it's almost $200, so not super easy to obtain, and I have never heard of such a device used to gain entry to a keypad-protected facility--although I wouldn't know where to look for that information (perhaps law enforcement). The official forum for the device actively discourages illegal activity and will remove posts describing such with the use of the device, so I would be unable to use the forum itself to determine if the device has been used for such activity.

 

I haven't personally heard of it, but I wouldn't doubt that it exists! In the general word of security, I think it's well understood that no lock is perfect. A risk assessment of a key-pad entry door shouldn't consider it 100% secure, and not only because of devices you've mentioned. Really the golden rule of security is that nothing is 100% secure. I'd consider the following when we're talking about this device though:

 

- The ubiquity of this device: how easy is it to obtain? Are there any reports of this device being used to access secure business previously, and how often? It may not have a large impact if the device is very hard to obtain or use, or if it doesn't have a history of use in your region.

 

- How much does your facility's security depend solely on key-pad entry? Typically, facilities have a number of security measures in place that offer some kind of redundancy in your security. For example, even if someone were to get through your key-pad door during work hours, employees could be identifiable by their badge or other company identification means. After hours your facility may have motion alarms or cameras in place that would detect someone getting into restricted areas. This hurdle-effect in security would lessen the risk posed by a such a device. 

 

In short, I don't think this kind of device makes key-pad entry doors obsolete. But it may motivate facilities that rely solely on key-pad entry to modernize their security a bit.

 

Would be very interested if anyone else has had any run-ins with this kind of device at their facility.

[SQFconsultant]

We  are well aware of this device, especially in the Lodging industry - these have been used to trip many locking systems and in turn electronic guest locks.

 

They are relatively easy to obtain and getting up to speed on using them is really quite easy as well - this is why crooks, rapists, kidnappers, etc love them.

 

It is very easy for a person to use one of these and because of their small size someone could be using one on a guest room floor and passersby would not even notice.

 

Thus, regardless of industry you all need layered security - for the lodging industry that means in some cases the need to make guest room doors into fortress doors with things like Strikyer door stops and long door mounted guards  - they can flip the lockcode, cut another key if needed by a good old fashioned door stopping guard set up will foil a break in every time - the only problem with that is when the guest is out of the room - then it escalates into pin camera's etc.

[jfrey123]

If it's the device I'm thinking of, it would be almost useless against a keypad.  But they're able to scan radio frequencies and duplicate RFID tags if they can get close enough to pickup someone else's tag.  Some cases bad guys drive around neighborhoods and intercept the signal when you open/close your garage door from your car, then flip back and gain entry after you leave.  

[SQFconsultant]

Here's a great explanation of all that a Flipper can do  https://www.zdnet.co...ngs-you-can-do/

 

Also, most hotels have installed RFID, etc blockers in place and because the codes on the cards are changing on a rolling basis it becomes more difficult to to get a lock on a code that will pop the door open.

 

And that is a hint to the food industry if you are using keyless entries to change the codes often. Someone using the same code for weeks or months (and I've seen years) is asking for a problem.