50 replies to this topic

[Seathalos]

The difference is SCALE

 

Fields where wheat is grown (as an example) never ever used to have raw manure spread on them, now it happens all the time in order to produce enough

 

I too licked the spoon, no longer

 

And when you know better, you do better

 

And in all reality we probably wouldn't need to use the raw manure if our food system was focused on sustainability and not the fools goal of infinite growth. There is only so many mouths to feed and farmers trash an upwards of half their produced crop. (winter wheat is one of the big losses, around 20-33% of it is wasted in the US per year).

 

Shitty practices, pun intended, for the sake of maybe increasing profits slightly is, imo, one of the largest causes for most of our food safety failings. Over use of pesticides, not holding animal production accountable for fecal control (run off into joint water supplies and having animals live and eat in their own and others feces), overuse of antimicrobials is finally catching up with us and is why STEC E coli. has proliferated to being one of our main concerns. We gave it opportune breeding grounds and are resistant to actually making the changes that mitigate it because it is "just a cost" and "doesn't increase profitability".

 

Honestly, Food Safety being viewed as "just a cost" instead of understanding that it is a needed public service that is a prerequisite to do business is probably the most infuriating part of this profession. We really need to get back to being Stakeholder centric instead of Shareholder centric  

[GMO]

I grew up licking the spoon from cake batter (made with egg), eating raw cookie dough (from homemade cookies), hell I even went through a 'get fit' stage where I was eating raw eggs for protein (spoiler alert, I was still fat).

I don't think food safety was common knowledge then, at least not in poorer areas where I grew up. Hell, in middle school we had one year where they tried a 'home ec' class, and the TEACHER was telling us to taste the cookie dough to see if it needed salt.

 

 

When my girlfriend makes cookies now (which is rare) I still have tasted them raw, even knowing what I know. Sometimes I wonder how we as humans have survived for so long  .

 

Read about survivors bias.

[Seathalos]

Read about survivors bias.

 

I swear this one thing is a leading cause for how little things have improved (or even regressed) for the last 40 years, at least in the US. The amount of times I hear "we x did y and they are doing great" or "x hasn't been a problem yet" in both private and professional life makes me want to rip every single strand of hair off of my body (this includes nose and ear hair)

[GMO]

I swear this one thing is a leading cause for how little things have improved (or even regressed) for the last 40 years, at least in the US. The amount of times I hear "we x did y and they are doing great" or "x hasn't been a problem yet" in both private and professional life makes me want to rip every single strand of hair off of my body (this includes nose and ear hair)

 

Indeed.  There almost seems to be pride being taken in being bad at statistics, maths, science etc right now.  

 

Here's an explanation of survivor's bias with the classic example of it for those who are new to the idea.

 

https://youtu.be/mbk...fmrd27tFJm2dVq-

[Scampi]

Things are going to get significantly worse in the states over the near future

 

gutting programs designed to support public health (from all avenues) is such a massive step in the wrong direction

[Seathalos]

Honestly why we should have people with no actual knowledge and background in Health or Food Safety be the head of departments focused on Health and Food Safety. Pushing pseudoscience based on feelings will harm all of the US and potentially other countries.

[Tony-C]

Hi Everyone,

 

Another Listeria mono related big recall but with no confirmed reports of adverse reactions to date. Problem was identified in-house which is good but why did it take so long as products date back to April, perhaps being cautious.

 

Kraft Heinz Foods Company Recalls Turkey Bacon Products Due to Possible Listeria Contamination

Kraft Heinz Foods Company, a Newberry, S.C., establishment, is recalling approximately 367,812 pounds of fully cooked turkey bacon products that may be adulterated with Listeria monocytogenes (Lm), the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) announced

The turkey bacon was produced from April 24, 2025, through June 11, 2025. The following products are subject to recall [view labels]:

The problem was discovered after the establishment's laboratory testing indicated the product may be contaminated with Lm.

 

Also note some stats, in case we didn’t know that Listeria monocytogenes is a real nasty that causes listeriosis, a severe illness with a high case-fatality rate:

Record-high rates of STEC and Listeria infections in the EU/EEA in 2023

Record-high listeriosis cases: A total of 2 993 confirmed listeriosis cases with 340 deaths were reported in 2023, making it the highest annual number recorded to date. Listeriosis primarily affects elderly individuals, pregnant women, newborns, and people with weakened immune systems. The disease is associated with severe complications, including meningitis, brain infections, and life-threatening bloodstream infections, making it one of the most serious foodborne illnesses under EU surveillance. The increasing elderly population, along with changing dietary habits such as higher consumption of ready-to-eat foods, may be contributing to the upward trend.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[GMO]

It does feel like lessons haven't been learned on Listeria.  Despite lots of opportunity.

[Seathalos]

It does feel like lessons haven't been learned on Listeria.  Despite lots of opportunity.

Now were the lesson not learned or did the people in charge learn from them but decided that what was learned isn't worth losing a small amount of short term profits. Personally, it seems like the latter is the usual thing that happens 

[Setanta]

It does feel like lessons haven't been learned on Listeria.  Despite lots of opportunity.

 

People/Businesses etc. need to be receptive to learning. That seems unlikely in the current "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge*" atmosphere.

 

*From a larger quote from Isaac Asimov  

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

[GMO]

Now were the lesson not learned or did the people in charge learn from them but decided that what was learned isn't worth losing a small amount of short term profits. Personally, it seems like the latter is the usual thing that happens 

 

Yep probably.  Maybe a bit of both.  

 

I had an interesting discussion once with someone on some new equipment, bought without my input and the hygienic design was appalling.  I would go round and round with my then MD in that the hygienic design was at fault.  He refused to believe a company would sell a machine which was not hygienically designed.  

 

Sometimes it's sheer ignorance and inability to be aware of their own ignorance.  So despite the fact they had me, a SME on food safety, they didn't want to believe what I was saying.

[Seathalos]

 

I had an interesting discussion once with someone on some new equipment, bought without my input and the hygienic design was appalling.  I would go round and round with my then MD in that the hygienic design was at fault.  He refused to believe a company would sell a machine which was not hygienically designed.  

 

People have way too much trust in companies, they aren't designed to make the best products or be the most ethical, they are trying to squeeze as much profits as possible and will cut any corner they believe will help with that goal. There is a reason we have to have systems like a Supplier Control and it isn't because companies are upstanding  

[Scampi]

I was in a poultry plant, right at commissioning.  We kept finding blue plastic in the totes----QA was NOT involved in equipment procurement 

I kept asking for the certificate that the trim line belt was cut resistant, engineer repeatedly "assured me" it was , and that the plastic must be form somewhere else

 

You guessed 500k later, the belts were completely replaced as they were NOT cut resistant

 

Without the handful of us who care, EVERY company would put profit ahead of safety---every single time

[GMO]

Without the handful of us who care, EVERY company would put profit ahead of safety---every single time

 

I was about to argue back then I realised my mouth was open but nothing was coming out...  Would any factory in the UK have stringent health and safety laws if senior managers didn't feel they would be imprisoned for it?  We probably need the same for food safety and then folks might step up.

[Tony-C]

Hi All,

 

I somehow missed this large Listeria recall earlier in June: Bornstein Seafoods Inc Recalls Cooked & Peeled Ready-To-Eat Coldwater Shrimp Meat Because of Possible Health Risk

 

Bornstein Seafoods of Bellingham, Washington is recalling 44,550 Lbs. of Cooked & Peeled Ready-To-Eat Coldwater Shrimp Meat (see table below for multiple lot codes) because it has the potential to be contaminated with Listeria monocytogenes, an organism which can cause serious and sometimes fatal infections in young children, frail or elderly people, and others with weakened immune systems.

 

The recall was the result of the firm’s routine sampling program and Listeria monocytogenes was detected in an in-process shrimp sample in a food production environment. The company has ceased the distribution of the product as the company continues our root cause investigation as to what caused the problem.

 

Again these cases highlight the value of/need for environment monitoring. Detecting Listeria before it gets into your products saves money and potentially lives.

 

BTW I always tend to boil frozen RTE prawns before eating although try not to overdo it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[GMO]

Detecting Listeria in your product (any species) means your process and HACCP plan have failed.  Detecting it in your environment shouldn't be as easily shrugged off either.  It will happen but product dependent should be VERY infrequent and far away from food contact (but you MUST swab food contact).  To a degree it also indicates the HACCP plan has failed, certainly if that's a food contact swab failing but at least, as you say, it's an earlier warning.

[Tony-C]

Hi Everyone,

 

Quite shocking!       3 months on and this saga is still ongoing, new recall announced yesterday:

 

FSIS Issues Public Health Alert For Ready-To-Eat Meals Containing Pasta That May Be Contaminated with Listeria

 

The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) is issuing a public health alert for ready-to-eat meals containing a Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulated pre-cooked pasta that may be contaminated with Listeria monocytogenes (Lm).The producing company collected samples of the FDA-regulated, pre-cooked pasta used as an ingredient in these products as part of the ongoing investigation related to the Listeria outbreak linked to chicken fettuccine alfredo meals. The test confirmed that the linguine pasta was positive for Lm and further testing is ongoing to determine if the Lm is genetically related to the specific outbreak strain. FSIS previously issued a recall notice linked to the Listeria outbreak in June and continues to coordinate with FDA, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and state public health partners.

 

The following product is subject to the public health alert [view labels]:

• 12-oz. clear plastic tray packages labeled “MARKETSIDE LINGUINE WITH BEEF MEATBALLS & MARINARA SAUCE” with “best if used by” dates SEP 22, 2025; SEP 24, 2025; SEP 25, 2025; SEP 29, 2025; SEP 30, 2025; and OCT 01, 2025.

The product bears establishment number “EST. 50784” or "EST. 47718" inside the USDA mark of inspection. This item was shipped to Walmart locations nationwide.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[GMO]

FFS.  That is f-king ridiculous.

 

Ok for people who have not worked in pasta cooking, I can see how this may have happened.  Pasta itself is unlikely to be a significant risk of having Listeria on it when raw (Aw too low), Listeria would be killed by cooking but could grow on the cooked pasta.  Assuming it's not something super basic like "we don't have a high risk area which we're cooking across the barrier into."  Some of the older CQC machines have really bad capturing of steam yet you normally are cooking into an area which is cooler.  You end up with piles of moisture going into a high care / high risk room.  Over time, that room gets pretty damaged if it's not maintained and everywhere is wet.  You'll get condensation, you'll get moisture on the walls, floor etc.  It's a bloody heaven for Listeria.  What's more is those CQC machines often need big holes in high / low risk walls so that in itself can be a risk on barrier control.

 

I bet you anyone with no experience will find Listeria embedded within that room (and elsewhere where it was originally accessing high care / risk or trodden into) with no swabbing experience in their lives.

[Tony-C]

Update 26th September 2025

 

FSIS Issues Public Health Alert For Ready-To-Eat Meals Containing Pasta That May Be Contaminated with Listeria

 

Details of this public health alert were updated on September 26, 2025, to reflect an additional affected product and corresponding labels.

 

The following product are subject to the public health alert:

 

Sold at Walmart: 12-oz. clear plastic tray packages labeled “MARKETSIDE LINGUINE WITH BEEF MEATBALLS & MARINARA SAUCE” with “best if used by” dates SEP 22, 2025; SEP 24, 2025; SEP 25, 2025; SEP 29, 2025; SEP 30, 2025; and OCT 01, 2025. The product bears establishment number “EST. 50784” or "EST. 47718" inside the USDA mark of inspection. [view labels]

 

Sold at Trader Joe’s: 16-oz. plastic tray packages labeled “TRADER JOE’S CAJUN STYLE BLACKENED CHICKEN BREAST FETTUCINE ALFREDO” with “best if used by” dates 9/20/2025, 9/24/2025, or 9/27/2025 printed on the front label of the packaging. The product bears establishment number “P- 45288” inside the USDA mark of inspection. [view labels]

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[Tony-C]

Another big Listeria Recall: M.C.I. Foods, Inc. Recalls Ready-To-Eat Breakfast Burrito and Wrap Products Due to Possible Listeria Contamination

 

'M.C.I. Foods Inc., a Santa Fe Springs, Calif., establishment, is recalling approximately 91,585 pounds of specific lots of ready-to-eat (RTE) breakfast burrito and wrap products containing egg that may be adulterated with Listeria monocytogenes (Lm), the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) announced today (Sat 18th October).

 

The individually packaged and bulk packed frozen breakfast burritos and wraps were produced between September 17, 2025, and October 14, 2025. A list of the products subject to recall can be found here: [view product list]. The labels for the impacted products can be found here: [view labels].

 

The products bear establishment number “EST. 1162A” or “P-5890A” inside the USDA mark of inspection. These items were shipped to foodservice institutions nationwide. The Los Cabos, El Más Fino and Midamar brand products are included in the USDA’s National School Lunch and Breakfast Programs.

 

The problem was discovered when the establishment notified FSIS of a positive Lm result in the scrambled egg component after the firm conducted routine sampling and testing of RTE ingredients from its external suppliers.

 

There have been no confirmed reports of illness due to consumption of these products. Anyone concerned about illness should contact a healthcare provider.'

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[Scampi]

How the hell did a plant manage to get listeria into what was a fully cooked component....i really want to know why i bust my hump everyday for other companies to shrug shoulders, pull a 95 on the audit and keep on trucking

 

They don't even have the decency to adjust their home page ---they clearly do not care----don't believe me, see for yourself, complete with Santa and falling snow

https://www.loscabosmexicanfoods.com/

 

Curiously, the US government buys food from a facility that isn't 3rd party certified   you'd think that would be the bare minimum these days 

Edited by Scampi, 21 October 2025 - 08:14 PM.

[Setanta]

Could it have come in with no or falsified CoA? 

 

CN=Child Nutrition, That's comforting.

[GMO]

How the hell did a plant manage to get listeria into what was a fully cooked component....i really want to know why i bust my hump everyday for other companies to shrug shoulders, pull a 95 on the audit and keep on trucking

 

I suppose post process recontamination is where you'd put your money.  Not familiar with how someone would scramble eggs industrially.  Can't imagine there are loads of bratt pans at high care / low risk barriers.  Terrifying if there are.

Edited by GMO, 22 October 2025 - 10:11 AM.

[Setanta]

There are hundreds, maybe thousands of RTE or RTH breakfast foods in the States.

 

I lived in a town that had a factory and that was all they made, EGGS.
Cooked eggs for further processing and breakfast items of their own, burritios, sandwiches, etc. 2 shifts 7 days a week, scrambled eggs, liquified eggs, for food service, for schools, for airlines...

[GMO]

How do they make them?  There's a company in the UK that does loads of these products but I've never been in.  I can imagine "cooking but not overcooking" is a massive issue.