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11.2.7.4 - Poisonous Baits interpretation

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#1 Julz

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:36 AM

Hi all,

My Pest Management company has just advised me that they would like to use a new non anticoagulant rodenticide called Selontra Soft Bait.  They have told me that this is suitable for use in manufacturing and storage areas.  To date I have only had the non toxic monitoring baits in these areas.  The Material Safety Data Sheet (see below)  states that it non hazardous and the label identifies it safe to be used in food processing facilities. The Pest Management Company have been advised by the supplier that this is suitable for manufacturing areas since it is not toxic to humans, but the documentation includes warnings not to store near food stuffs or near children.  The SQF standard states the following:

 
11.2.7.4
Electric insect control devices, pheromone or other traps and baits shall be located so as not to present a
contamination risk to the product, packaging, containers or processing equipment. Poison rodenticide bait shall not
be used inside ingredient or product storage areas or processing areas.
 
My interpretation is that I can not use this non anticoagulant rodenticide due to it being poisonous to vermin and possibly humans.  I would prefer to use this bait instead of the monitoring baits (non toxic) as they just provide a free feed.   Can someone please help me with the interpretation of standard 11.2.7.4.
Thanks
Julie
 
 

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#2 Hassan2017

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:52 AM

Hi Julie,

 

 

11.2.7.4

Electric insect control devices, pheromone or other traps and baits shall be located so as not to present a
contamination risk to the product, packaging, containers or processing equipment. Poison rodenticide bait shall not
be used inside ingredient or product storage areas or processing areas.

 

Hi Julie,

 

I am not aware with 11.2.7.4 standard & i hope someone from Aus help you.

 

But I faced this issue too, I used it as first defence line outside the facility in a place with no human or food contact. Beside the Statement was very clear, you can use only sticky baits - mechanical bait stations - any other kinda of traps , as this substance is also anticoagulant for humans with large doses

 

As an Opinion Make a very detailed checking for any possible entrance for rodents

  • Maintain windows 
  • Close all wall & floor holes
  • Add a metal sheets as obstructions on wires or air ducts
  • Cleaning procedure increase for storage area and racks
  • Of course no wooden pallets
  • No maintenance scraps accumulation *As the Maintenance Team loves it* 

beside I used a protocol to attract rodent:

  • 1st week put 1 or half Sardine on the bait station - to be left only overnight then removed 
  • 2nd week put half tomatoes on the bait station - to be left only overnight then removed
  • loop the plan
  • change the bait stations places ( added to the map or plan or the procedure as an extra places when need it or as temporarily ) 
  • always choose the place with dark and no motion areas beside the walls or above the false ceilings.
  • never forget to remove it as if the rodent found it dangerous - they gonna avoid it.

 

Its not a scientific based pest control measurements but it did work for me lol .. had no Rodent for 5 Years 

 

Regards 


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#3 GMO

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:23 AM

I don't use SQF but am accredited to another GFSI standard and it wouldn't be acceptable to them.  Ultimately if I'm honest I don't like toxic baits much.  Yes they will eventually kill a rodent but only after time and potentially after it's had a nibble on your foodstuffs as well.  Toxic baits though have their place.  They can be useful on the outside of the building (if you've got an active issue as they can poison birds of prey) but where I'd use them is inside locked off wall cavities and roof voids as these are areas which rodents love and they're less likely to then be with your product.

 

If you want a lethal pest control in low risk areas, there are some other options.  You can use break back traps or gassing traps which suffocate the mouse (I think Rentokil make some) and these have no baits at all so can be used in food areas as long as you check them internally once a week.  BUT that said, I would still use bait monitoring points as well because you won't be able to tell if a mouse simply didn't like the other traps whereas a nibble from a non toxic block is a good indicator that a mouse is there and then you could even respond for a limited period with something more aggressive like glue boards.  Of course they can (and do) ignore all types of traps from time to time which is why baiting is only part of a pest control strategy.  It's important to train all staff on things to prevent pest access (closing doors, repairing proofing), limit food and water sources (clean up spills etc) and limit harbourage (keep areas tidy with inspection ability around walls).  Also train them on what to look for with pest issues.  I can tell you the first time I found signs of gnawing in a factory years ago, I didn't know what I was looking at and it was only someone next to me that suggested it could have been a sign of a mouse.  Although I knew gnawing happens with rodents, I'd never seen it in real life so showing photos of what gnawing and droppings look like can be very powerful and helpful.


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#4 GMO

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:24 AM

Hi Julie,

 

 

 

beside I used a protocol to attract rodent:

  • 1st week put 1 or half Sardine on the bait station - to be left only overnight then removed 
  • 2nd week put half tomatoes on the bait station - to be left only overnight then removed
  • loop the plan
  • change the bait stations places ( added to the map or plan or the procedure as an extra places when need it or as temporarily ) 
  • always choose the place with dark and no motion areas beside the walls or above the false ceilings.
  • never forget to remove it as if the rodent found it dangerous - they gonna avoid it.

 

Its not a scientific based pest control measurements but it did work for me lol .. had no Rodent for 5 Years 

 

Regards 

 

It would be very unusual for a GFSI audit to accept food baits being used nowadays.  Were auditors aware you did this?


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#5 Hassan2017

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:39 AM

It would be very unusual for a GFSI audit to accept food baits being used nowadays.  Were auditors aware you did this?

 

Hi GMO,

              Well I do Agree its unusual. I never worked with GFSI Auditors Actually and that makes me wondering what they would state on this matter!! any exact specific technical measures they would point at regarding this?

 

the usual used alternatives to Rodenticides

 

Rodent Trapping

Rodent Proofing

Habitat modification

Glue Boards

 

But I took inconsideration:

  • Type of the facility - Type of food production
  • Included it in the Risk Assessment.
  • Potential cross-contamination - source of contamination 
  • Never used it in production areas ( warehouses & outside the facility )
  • Never exceeded 6 hours overnight ( that after sampling plan study for 3 samples ) by fixing the ( temperature *once for summer & once in winter* - humidity factors ).
  • used cooked Sardine & tomatoes
  • of course included in the map - plan - procedure & checklists
  • Even the waste management 

Of course they ware aware And yes eventually It got accepted by the Auditors


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#6 GMO

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:18 PM

The reason why I'm surprised is by using actual food stuffs you may then attract more pests to your facility and the cooked sardine and tomatoes are a source of pathogens in themselves, especially when left at room temperature.  I've never known a UK pest control company do this.  While you're right, I can't see anything explicitly precluding it in BRC, they don't tell you not to have a factory cat either.  I honestly can't see how anyone would accept it.  Anyone else doing this?


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#7 Hassan2017

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 07:57 AM

Morning GMO,

 

I don't know if anyone else doing it but I am sure all the standards never referred not to use an exact technical measures except toxic baits - even in BRC! .. they mentioned don't use toxic baits inside the production area unless there is a need and all the precautions taken in clause 4 i think

 

Every thing inside the manufacturing process is a possible source of contamination Not only my 5 or 6 Sardine & tomatoes! lol .. Because of that we do the Hazard analysis , 

 

Well! have to tell ya the truth as a Vet only trying to use the natural means to achieve targets and minimise killing any creature as possible unless its extremely dangerous 

 

Once! .. I had a stray cats problem affecting my receiving yard .. I am sure UK not suffering from this! haha .. But I would like to know what would you do!  :hypocrite:


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#8 GMO

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:03 AM

Yes but I suppose it seems daft to have accepted practices such as not leaving food stuffs on floor as spills but then deliberately put the same risk in place to catch rodents?
 

I did work in one multinational once who had it in their international COP not to have factory cats.  I also know of one site in the UK who has a factory fox who is present (only on the outside) and not discouraged.  I very much doubt any auditor knows.

 

I'd be interested though if anyone else has used real food baits in rodent traps in a site audited by a GFSI scheme and got anyone to agree to it?  Seems bonkers to me.

 


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#9 Charles.C

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:55 AM

Yes but I suppose it seems daft to have accepted practices such as not leaving food stuffs on floor as spills but then deliberately put the same risk in place to catch rodents?
 

I did work in one multinational once who had it in their international COP not to have factory cats.  I also know of one site in the UK who has a factory fox who is present (only on the outside) and not discouraged.  I very much doubt any auditor knows.

 

I'd be interested though if anyone else has used real food baits in rodent traps in a site audited by a GFSI scheme and got anyone to agree to it?  Seems bonkers to me.

 

 

 

Hi GMO,

 

(bit OT)

 

I have encountered fish and shrimp (upper class facility) in trap use. From the trended statistics, both were seemingly gobbled with alacrity.

I also felt these were rather illogical/insanitary choices but seemed auditorialy to have ticked the GFSI box OK. 

 

I have also observed some bad experiences where facilities were using (unconfined) poison baits in internal situations. The victims tended to hide under desks at night and often disintegrate violently the next day. Rapidly discontinued.

 

It's a difficult problem to find a food compatible / humane solution. Prevention is surely better than cure. A pity the still-marketed sonic devices seem to have ultimately got nowhere.


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Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#10 Hassan2017

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:41 PM

Yes but I suppose it seems daft to have accepted practices such as not leaving food stuffs on floor as spills but then deliberately put the same risk in place to catch rodents?
 

I did work in one multinational once who had it in their international COP not to have factory cats.  I also know of one site in the UK who has a factory fox who is present (only on the outside) and not discouraged.  I very much doubt any auditor knows.

 

I'd be interested though if anyone else has used real food baits in rodent traps in a site audited by a GFSI scheme and got anyone to agree to it?  Seems bonkers to me.

 

 

Hi GMO,

             Before we jump to any conclusion regarding it, its way better than toxic baits & much more less risky when its controlled .. scientifically & logically! I nothing wrong with it .. 

 

About the fox outside too! .. I don't think its not different than the security guarding dogs in some companies main entrance to check trucks & cars!

 

Hi GMO,

 

(bit OT)

 

I have encountered fish and shrimp (upper class facility) in trap use. From the trended statistics, both were seemingly gobbled with alacrity.

I also felt these were rather illogical/insanitary choices but seemed auditorialy to have ticked the GFSI box OK. 

 

I have also observed some bad experiences where facilities were using (unconfined) poison baits in internal situations. The victims tended to hide under desks at night and often disintegrate violently the next day. Rapidly discontinued.

 

It's a difficult problem to find a food compatible / humane solution. Prevention is surely better than cure. A pity the still-marketed sonic devices seem to have ultimately got nowhere.

 

Hi Charles , I agree with you , I used the Ultra-sonic waves too but it didn't work for me.

 

Regards


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#11 FurFarmandFork

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 03:02 PM

 

 

The victims tended to hide under desks at night and often disintegrate violently the next day. 

 

Thanks for the visual. I think QA earned an extra vacation day that morning.


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For discussions related to food safety, production, and agriculture. Check out my blog at http://furfarmandfork.com/.

 


#12 Tony-C

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 05:18 AM

I would agree with your interpretation Julie.

 

From the info on the bait post the following things leapt out at me and I'm sure they would for an auditor:

DANGEROUS POISON KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
DO NOT allow bait to contaminate food stuffs or food intended for human or animal consumption.
3. Composition/information on ingredients Chemical nature - rodenticide, Bait

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony
 


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#13 Charles.C

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 06:55 AM

Hi Tony,

 

Well spotted. I thought the words "Highly Palatable"  a rather nice touch also.

 

It's an intriguing active ingredient -

 

Cholecalciferol (vitamin D3) is used both as a dietary supplement and a rodenticide

http://www.msdvetman...holecalciferol'


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Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C






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