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HACCP Plan for “chicken tikka” and “rusmalai”


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saim

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 12:28 PM

I am a graduate student, and asked to make a HACCP plan on any two Pakistani food products, I’ve selected “chicken tikka” and “rusmalai”, I want you to guide me all the possible hazards linked with their raw ingredients, and processing, along with their control measures and CCP, assuming all those potential hazards, significant to address in HACCP plan. I’d already go through model generic plans provided by Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Food Safety and Inspection Service/U.S. Department of Agriculture, but many raw ingredients’ related hazards, I can’t found out there. I would also like to bring into your knowledge that I’ve a very limited time left, therefore, expecting your reply very soon.



saim

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 07:35 AM

For your conviniency, I am attaching the recipe for both products also

Attached Files



saim

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:13 AM

no reply..? does HACCP, giving the experts tough time, too ...?



saim

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 11:41 AM

:helpplease: :helpplease: :helpplease:

are u people still enjoying new yr..?
plz reply........
im running out of time


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Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:47 PM

I am a graduate student, and asked to make a HACCP plan on any two Pakistani food products, I’ve selected “chicken tikka” and “rusmalai”, I want you to guide me all the possible hazards linked with their raw ingredients, and processing, along with their control measures and CCP, assuming all those potential hazards, significant to address in HACCP plan. I’d already go through model generic plans provided by Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Food Safety and Inspection Service/U.S. Department of Agriculture, but many raw ingredients’ related hazards, I can’t found out there. I would also like to bring into your knowledge that I’ve a very limited time left, therefore, expecting your reply very soon.

For your conviniency, I am attaching the recipe for both products also





THANKYOU
SAIM


Hi Saim

Well i'll give it a shot

Firstly i believe (and others may disagree) that your raw materials should be covered as part of your pre-requisite plan. you have no control over what your supplier does. However there may be some aspects of your raw ingredients that may be a CCp. an example of thiis would be Raw Milk and Antibiotics.

Your specification / COA should stipulate freshness of your ingredients, microbiological levels, foreign body levels that are acceptable etc.

The handling of your raw ingredients also needs to be looked at- do you have a low risk / high care area?

I haven't looked at the plans, but i'm assuming that your tikka is being marinaded - here you could look at temperatures / cip of equipment/ maybe even metal detection. does your marinade contain any allergens?

Cooking would be a CCP i would think. You should have time / temperature criteria to ensure a safe cook of your product

if you are packing your product then you need to look at potential foreign body contamination / chemical residues from cip or microbial contamination from poor GMP. It could be that you metal detect your final product. maintaining the chill temperature would also be important.

Sorry but i have no idea what rusmalai is

hope this helps

caz


saim

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 04:32 PM

thanks a lot for ur reply caz, u've no idea what rusmalai is, but do u really then understand what tikka is?? ;) ,
my main concern, is the potential hazards linked with the raw material, like yogurt, teaspoons cumin, cinnamon, cayenne, black pepper, ginger, jalapeno, paprika in "tikka" and baking powder, almonds, pistachio, cardamom in "rusmalai" and then their control measures and CCP,
i'll again indicate that product, assumed to be highly contamiated, i.e., every hazards need to be addressed in haccp plan, giving their control measures and CCP
for the rusmalai, i've already provided u with the recipe, so just go and try it.. :smile:

WAITING ANXIOUSLY FOR ALL OF THE EXPERTS REPLY
THANKS
SAIM



Cathy

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 04:51 PM

I did not do an in-depth review of your recipe and plan, but after a brief look, it seems clear you must add telmerature and time requirements for both cooking and cooling. Time alone is not sufficient if you do not know the termperature. Done properly, controlled and documented - this should take care of your main biological concerns with ingredients. An appropriate pre-requisitte program for purchasing and receiving should assist you in prevention of chemical and physical hazards for those same ingredients. Is this retail / restaurant HACCP ? In the U.S., the HACCP requirements and recommendations for retail are different than for manufacturing. This is not so much because the hazards change, but the process and opportunities for control are different.


Cathy Crawford, HACCP Consulting Group
http://haccpcg.com/

Cathy

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 04:52 PM

Sorry about the typing errors! Sometimes I go too fast!


Cathy Crawford, HACCP Consulting Group
http://haccpcg.com/

wijnand1970

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:34 PM

Saim,

Tell me what do you look for exactly.

Is it in the context of;
Baking Powder can contain DON (and other Mycotoxins)
Paprika; Soedan Red

Or proces related?

In my opion i think you seek both.

For all possible raw material risk i have some excel-sheets over here. Containing Myco-toxins, Virus, Pathogenic micro-org., Parasites etc (mostly Dutch)

The proces part will not be that hard.

Just let me know what you seek exactly


Senior Food Consultant

The Netherlands


www.qassurance.com

Charles.C

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 02:30 AM

Dear samai,

I deduce you are basically looking for a generic type haccp plan for chicken tikka and rusmalai.
I also initially deduced that you hv already taken care of all relevant prerequisites but now not so sure. Do you hv a prototype haccp plan which you could show to us ?

Prerequisites would normally include raw material specifications. Already started or ?? You mention "highly contaminated". Any idea with what ?? Not possible to control from the supplier ??

yogurt, teaspoons cumin, cinnamon, cayenne, black pepper, ginger, jalapeno, paprika in "tikka" and baking powder, almonds, pistachio, cardamom


I regret could not find a typical haccp plan and am not particularly expert on above list however as Caz noted, the cooking step should take care of vegetative microbiological issues although the marinade procedure would be required to be temperature regulated even though 1 hour is a short period anyway. This leaves other micro possibilities, allergens, chemical / physical contaminations. Is this a restaurant or what ??

You may find some useful environmental analogies perhaps with the haccp process plans occurring in this thread although different products are involved -

http://www.ifsqn.com...showtopic=11292

Sorry not of more immediate help but perhaps there are other more relevant experts here. :smile:

Rgds / Charles.C

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 07 January 2009 - 08:48 AM

Saim, have the answers provided by the experts satisfied your question or do you need further help?


Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


saim

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 09:08 PM

Many thing lefts simon, thanks for all of ur expert assistance, but I need many more.

Caz was telling me that many of raw materials used should be covered as part of pre-requisite program but which program?, and also before that, would u tell me the list of hazards, that are identified with the raw ingredients? Specially with the ingredients that I mentioned before, yogurt, lemon juice, cumin, cinnamon, cayenne, black pepper, ginger, jalapeno, paprika in "tikka" and baking powder, almonds, pistachio, cardamom in "rusmalai that I cant find out in any generic plan, also clarify me, if there are no pre-requisite program in place, will that (keeping the program in place)be count as ccp? Also I forgot to mention in the recipe, that tikka is charcoal grilled, will that contain hazards, and then what will be its ccp.



Secondly he ask me if there is any allergens in marinate, well that’s the question I am expecting u to answer, as part of all the hazards identified wth ingredients.

Also caz and cathy mentioned about maintaining cooking and cooling temp, time, would u both plz specify the required time, temp needed for refrigerating the marination, grilling, cooking with sauce, in tikka and for boiling, chilling, in rusmalai, coz there are different time/temp given in different generic plans.



For wijnand, I think he understand me the best, I am mainly looking for all possible raw material risk, but where r ur excel-sheets?? And in dutch? U r going to translate it for me then ;-), but, with the hazards, do provide me their ccp plz….



And finally for charles, infact this is an explanation for everyone, look …I am suppose to make a plan on such products (tikka and rusmalai), that have nothing save with it, no pre- requisite, nothing good applied, that is what I meant “highly contaminated” , the more the ccp encountered, the best will be the plan considered, hope u people get it



And… last but not the least … some requests and suggestions for u experts.. related with the problems I am confronting here with … do u know whats the problem with me 1st, it is my teacher who asked us to make a plan in just 2 weeks, could u imagine.. jst 2 wk.. 4 an haccp plan … this will b going 2 make me die .. even u experts take several wks, guys.. how come possible for me ?? .. see .. what an offence L , and my countdown had already started, just a day left in the final date for submitting assignment, so plz, plz, plz stay connected and bring me out of this misery before my death sentence arrivedJ , and 2nd, , I got stuck with so many experts, whose different opinions, adding my confusion, so plzzzz…, give me an “agreed upon” result.



As for the suggestion, this forum with all its good aspect, badly needs a linguist too, (explanation,.. some another time)







saim

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 09:12 PM

Many thing lefts simon, thanks for all of ur expert assistance, but I need many more.

Caz was telling me that many of raw materials used should be covered as part of pre-requisite program but which program?, and also before that, would u tell me the list of hazards, that are identified with the raw ingredients? Specially with the ingredients that I mentioned before, yogurt, lemon juice, cumin, cinnamon, cayenne, black pepper, ginger, jalapeno, paprika in "tikka" and baking powder, almonds, pistachio, cardamom in "rusmalai that I cant find out in any generic plan, also clarify me, if there are no pre-requisite program in place, will that (keeping the program in place)be count as ccp? Also I forgot to mention in the recipe, that tikka is charcoal grilled, will that contain hazards, and then what will be its ccp.



Secondly he ask me if there is any allergens in marinate, well that’s the question I am expecting u to answer, as part of all the hazards identified wth ingredients.

Also caz and cathy mentioned about maintaining cooking and cooling temp, time, would u both plz specify the required time, temp needed for refrigerating the marination, grilling, cooking with sauce, in tikka and for boiling, chilling, in rusmalai, coz there are different time/temp given in different generic plans.



For wijnand, I think he understand me the best, I am mainly looking for all possible raw material risk, but where r ur excel-sheets?? And in dutch? U r going to translate it for me then :oops: , but, with the hazards, do provide me their ccp plz….



And finally for charles, infact this is an explanation for everyone, look …I am suppose to make a plan on such products (tikka and rusmalai), that have nothing save with it, no pre- requisite, nothing good applied, that is what I meant “highly contaminated” , the more the ccp encountered, the best will be the plan considered, hope u people get it



And… last but not the least … some requests and suggestions for u experts.. related with the problems I am confronting here with … do u know whats the problem with me 1st, it is my teacher who asked us to make a plan in just 2 weeks, could u imagine.. jst 2 wk.. 4 an haccp plan … this will b going 2 make me die .. even u experts take several wks, guys.. how come possible for me ?? .. see .. what an offence :angry: , and my countdown had already started, just a day left in the final date for submitting assignment, so plz, plz, plz stay connected and bring me out of this misery before my death sentence arrived :bye: , and 2nd, , I got stuck with so many experts, whose different opinions, adding my confusion, so plzzzz…, give me an “agreed upon” result.



As for the suggestion, this forum with all its good aspect, badly needs a linguist too, (explanation,.. some another time)







AS NUR

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 12:48 AM

Many thing lefts simon, thanks for all of ur expert assistance, but I need many more.

Caz was telling me that many of raw materials used should be covered as part of pre-requisite program but which program?, and also before that, would u tell me the list of hazards, that are identified with the raw ingredients? Specially with the ingredients that I mentioned before, yogurt, lemon juice, cumin, cinnamon, cayenne, black pepper, ginger, jalapeno, paprika in "tikka" and baking powder, almonds, pistachio, cardamom in "rusmalai that I cant find out in any generic plan, also clarify me, if there are no pre-requisite program in place, will that (keeping the program in place)be count as ccp? Also I forgot to mention in the recipe, that tikka is charcoal grilled, will that contain hazards, and then what will be its ccp.



Secondly he ask me if there is any allergens in marinate, well that’s the question I am expecting u to answer, as part of all the hazards identified wth ingredients.

Also caz and cathy mentioned about maintaining cooking and cooling temp, time, would u both plz specify the required time, temp needed for refrigerating the marination, grilling, cooking with sauce, in tikka and for boiling, chilling, in rusmalai, coz there are different time/temp given in different generic plans.



For wijnand, I think he understand me the best, I am mainly looking for all possible raw material risk, but where r ur excel-sheets?? And in dutch? U r going to translate it for me then :oops: , but, with the hazards, do provide me their ccp plz….



And finally for charles, infact this is an explanation for everyone, look …I am suppose to make a plan on such products (tikka and rusmalai), that have nothing save with it, no pre- requisite, nothing good applied, that is what I meant “highly contaminated” , the more the ccp encountered, the best will be the plan considered, hope u people get it



And… last but not the least … some requests and suggestions for u experts.. related with the problems I am confronting here with … do u know whats the problem with me 1st, it is my teacher who asked us to make a plan in just 2 weeks, could u imagine.. jst 2 wk.. 4 an haccp plan … this will b going 2 make me die .. even u experts take several wks, guys.. how come possible for me ?? .. see .. what an offence :angry: , and my countdown had already started, just a day left in the final date for submitting assignment, so plz, plz, plz stay connected and bring me out of this misery before my death sentence arrived :bye: , and 2nd, , I got stuck with so many experts, whose different opinions, adding my confusion, so plzzzz…, give me an “agreed upon” result.



As for the suggestion, this forum with all its good aspect, badly needs a linguist too, (explanation,.. some another time)







Dear SAIM..

IMO.. to make HACCP plan fist you have to know deptly about your process production include your Raw MAterial... if you ask me what the hazard of your RM and your process, i can't declare excactly what is the hazard.. so.. your shelf that can state your hazard based on your knowledge or literarature... here i attach the guidelines to make haccp plan...

i hope can help you... :thumbup:

Attached Files



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saim

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 07:16 AM

See .. how much I care for u, :oops: .. before that sorry to all of u for limiting u to provide just a single result, but here a call for u to comment as much as u can.

Better 1st to let u aware the scenario, … with making my own plan, I was also asked to discuss any 3 generic plan, that if some of the ccp point out in the plan, doesn’t seems a ccp to me, or there are some more ccp identified, not mentioned in that plan, simply what u did with hummus plan, responding THEO, which I already selected for 1st discussion,



So here I am attaching u the 2 plans, plz comment on that, considering the same request, i.e., to reply as soon as u can,

Reminding u again, I am left with one day only



Thanku

POOR SAIM :helpplease:

Attached Files



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Suzuki

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 10:36 AM

While I appreciate your level of technical entry in the food safety sector, you realize you would have to provide the forum what you have done so far otherwise you know you are not going to get anywhere.......... bluntly, you are basically asking us to complete the project for you.



saim

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:40 PM

no one can move forward without expert's help, specially when one get tangled with a situation like mine, no background knowledge, and a task for haccp plan?? i'd already described it, sorry if u feel it an incorrect way suzuki, but what i asked all of u for, i am really thankful to all of u, might my way doesnt look like that, but i really am.
i also want to inform u, just i connected here, for a good alternate, a chance for getting sound marks on my assignment, with the help of u experts, otherwise im ready with my plan for other two simpler products, "samosa" and "kheer", i believe these explaination willmay change ur opinion big bro.
u can be optimistic seeing WIJINAND, who although knowing my position, offer me his help, max he can, and ofcorse the others
so now i'll give u a call too.. plz help me

and iam also waiting for u wijinand



cazyncymru

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 09:12 PM

no one can move forward without expert's help, specially when one get tangled with a situation like mine, no background knowledge, and a task for haccp plan?? i'd already described it, sorry if u feel it an incorrect way suzuki, but what i asked all of u for, i am really thankful to all of u, might my way doesnt look like that, but i really am.
i also want to inform u, just i connected here, for a good alternate, a chance for getting sound marks on my assignment, with the help of u experts, otherwise im ready with my plan for other two simpler products, "samosa" and "kheer", i believe these explaination willmay change ur opinion big bro.
u can be optimistic seeing WIJINAND, who although knowing my position, offer me his help, max he can, and ofcorse the others
so now i'll give u a call too.. plz help me

and iam also waiting for u wijinand



Saim

It would appear that you have little or no experience in HACCP because some of the answers we have given you are almost "generic" for a HACCP plan.

A pre-requisite program is a list or procedure to cover such things as CIP, specifications, suppliers, personnel, factory standards, testing schedules etc etc. this program is something that you have to develop yourself. this is not something that you can get off the shelf, but needs to be tailored to suit your individual needs. it takes ages to develop a good pre-requisite program that works for your company, as i'm sure the other HACCP posters will agree. i wouldn't call us experts in HACCP, we are all experts for our factories, because we understand our processes. all of the ingredients you have listed would be supplied from a supplier who you had deemed as suitable as being a supplier. this you would do by risk assessing that supplier, either by a SAQ/ an audit or historic information.

regarding allergens, there is a list of allergens for the UK, which for labelling reasons we have to be aware of. if you are to use this list as a guide, then you should be stipulating to your suppliers, via your specifications, that they must not contain these allergens. if your ingredients are such that they contain an allergen, then you must remember that this needs to be included in your HACCP plan. you do have allergens as you have nuts in your product, so this needs to be addressed.

The time / temperature combination as a CCP is a basic HACCP principle! it would be true in just about every process which requires either a heat treatment or a cook. only you can determine what your time temp combination is. this is not my area of expertise!

the temperature that you marinade up has to be controlled too.

you've not supplied us with details of the final use; is it retail or resturant? if its retail you may need to be doing tests for metal detection, and maybe checks if you are packing in a MAP environment.

we can't do the project for you; otherwise we should be getting the qualification!
this doesn't mean you shouldn't use us as a resource, and most of the responding posters on here are only to happy to help. but can i ask you to be realistic about responses, as like i said, we all have our own areas of expertise, and unfortunately tikka isn't one of them, and like yourself, english may not be their first language.

caz


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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:10 PM

Saim,

Been busy last week(s)

Will see into the excel and try it to translate next week.
Maybe more people can use it

Wijnand


Senior Food Consultant

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www.qassurance.com




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