15 replies to this topic

[mind over matter]

I’m just wondering why customer satisfaction is not addressed in ISO 22000.

Thoughts?

[tsmith7858]

ISO already has 9001 to cover quality so they wrote 22000 just for food safety. The two can be integrated into a single Food Safety and Quality Management System and are very similar.

I cannot speak for their exact reasoning but I would guess they did not want to be repetative with 22000 and they felt that food safety was important enough to stand on its own.

[saguym]

ISO already has 9001 to cover quality so they wrote 22000 just for food safety. The two can be integrated into a single Food Safety and Quality Management System and are very similar.

I cannot speak for their exact reasoning but I would guess they did not want to be repetative with 22000 and they felt that food safety was important enough to stand on its own.

Customer satisfaction is a quality issue and not a safety issue. Threfore it is a part of ISO 9001 and not a part of ISO 22000.

saguym

[Zeeshan]

I’m just wondering why customer satisfaction is not addressed in ISO 22000.

Thoughts?

Customer satisfaction is a quality issue and not a safety issue. Threfore it is a part of ISO 9001 and not a part of ISO 22000.

saguym

I partially agree with saguym. Customer satisfaction is a combination of quality and safety issues. Customer satisfaction is a composite of many factors. For food product, food safety is the most critical factor among them. A good quality food product MUST BE SAFE along with appealing taste, convenient packaging, reasonable serving quantity, convenient availability etc. etc. IMO, since all the factors other than food safety not come under the scope of a food safety management system, you can not define the complete requirements of customer satisfaction. That's why any management standard specific to food safety (such as ISO 22000) does not address customer satisfaction.
In other words:
ISO 9001 is a generic management system standard. Hence it addresses the customer satisfaction explicitly.
ISO 22000 is a specific management system standard - specific to food safety only. Since food safety is only one parameter of customer satisfaction (although the major one) therefore it is not explicitly address the customer satisfaction requirements.

Hope it helps.

Regards:
M. Zeeshan

[GMO]

This is what I don't like about ISO standards. It tries to be all things to all people; hence the ISO9000 series being used in many industries but because it wasn't seen as specific enough for food (and had some idiosyncrasies that didn't work well in food) they produced ISO22000 but then felt they couldn't repeat themselves. Meaning to have a complete quality system in a food site, you should have ISO9000 series and ISO22000 (or I would argue a different standard altogether). I once got asked in an interview to become an auditor for ISO standards if ISO9000 required a HACCP plan. I said no and explained how ISO22000 would bridge that gap. The auditor said I was wrong because HACCP is a legal requirement! Well so are anti money laundering measures but as far as I'm concerned, the scope of the audit is defined by the standard you're auditing against!

As a result of this attitude I fear many auditors auditing against ISO22000 will expect things like this to be in place (unfairly IMO).

[Charles.C]

Dear All,

Ahh! Customer Satisfaction -

One of the biggest misconceptions about customer satisfaction is that it’s tied to the products and services that you’re selling. The truth is that if your offerings aren’t superlative, in today’s harsh competitive climate, you’ll be out of business within a week.

In B2B sales situations, customer satisfaction comes from how you, the sales professional, interact with the customer. To this end, there twelve fundamental and inviolable laws that come into play every time you interact with a customer:

* Rule #1: Your customer wants to feel important.
* Rule #2: Your customer craves being appreciated.
* Rule #3: Your customer is NOT interested in you.
* Rule #4: Your customer wants two things: success and happiness.
* Rule #5: Your customer wants you to truly listen.
* Rule #6: Your customer will NOT connect unless he feels valued.
* Rule #7: Your customer buys emotionally but defends logically.
* Rule #8: Your customer’s average attention span is very short.
* Rule #9: Your customer wants to be understood.
* Rule #10: Your customer is drawn to those who show true interest.
* Rule #11: Your customer wants to teach you something.
* Rule #12: Your customer wants your help in some aspect of life.

If you’re not behaving in a way that’s congruent with these laws, your customer will not be happy with you, or your firm. Contrariwise, if these laws are driving every aspect of the customer relationship, you’ll have a customer who will praise you to the skies, give you referrals and buy from you as long as you have something valuable to offer.

http://www.bnet.com/...atisfaction/462

PS I wonder if Customer Satisfaction is supposed to include the purchasing/usage of the Standard itself. ?

[mind over matter]

One of the biggest misconceptions about customer satisfaction is that it’s tied to the products and services that you’re selling.

I definitely agree. There are some customers who are never satisfied, no matter how good your products and services are.

[Dux]

Why must customer satisfaction addressed in ISO 22000?

ISO22000 is focus on food safety.

A bread with complete safety, forget adding sugar and over-burned, meeting requirement of ISO22000.

but none like it.

So food safety is a "must", food quality is "flexible". So unnessecary to discuss customer satisfaction in ISO22000

[Modarres]

I’m just wondering why customer satisfaction is not addressed in ISO 22000.

Thoughts?

ISO 22000 addressed Customer Satisfaction in its Scope:
This International Standard specifies requirements to enable an organization:
...
c) to evaluate and assess customer requirements and demonstrate conformity with those mutually agreed
customer requirements that relate to food safety, in order to enhance customer satisfaction,
....

[Tony-C]

I’m just wondering why customer satisfaction is not addressed in ISO 22000.

The standard specifies the requirements for a food safety management system that combines recognized key elements to ensure food safety along the food chain. Food safety is only a part of customer satisfaction.

Regards,

Tony

[MichaelCert]

The glib answer is that ISO 22000:2005 is about food safety. The standard specifies requirements for an FSMS so that an organization can ensure food is safe at the time it is eaten.

Food is either safe or it isn't. Food might be safe, but not taste very nice. It can also taste wonderful and kill you. It’s difficult to measure customer satisfaction about food safety when most people make a determination about how satisfied they are about food on subjective factors such as taste, aroma or appearance. Besides, the average consumer is not likely to have the means to make such a determination about food safety, but is quite happy to make a determination about taste, aroma or appearance and trust those making and supplying food to ensure that food is safe. This is why standards, systems, and competencies in the food chain are vital.

Note that other standards such as ISO 14001:2004 (environmental), OHSAS 18001:2007 (occupational health & safety) and ISO/IEC 27000:2005 (information system security) don’t directly address customer satisfaction either.

Michael

I’m just wondering why customer satisfaction is not addressed in ISO 22000.

Thoughts?

[Charles.C]

Dear MichaelCert,

Besides, the average consumer is not likely to have the means to make such a determination about food safety,

Food is either safe or it isn't.

Don't think I entirely agree about the above!

(1) Diarrhoea is a very immediate self-appraisal parameter IMEX. Admittedly, the precise origin may be elusive but some "usual suspects" often tend to be handily around. (perhaps unfairly if the procedure was faulty, just bad luck in such cases). Prevention is better than "repetition" ?

(2) Bit of an overwhelming generalisation IMO . For example - "to whom"?

Rgds / Charles.C

BTW - welcome to the forum!

[Charles Chew]

IMO, delivering products that meet defined food safety objectives is a primary goal of ISO 22000. However, customer expectation, satisfaction and requirements specific to food safety are all sub-sets of ISO 22000 that are implied.

As a customer, when I purchase a product, it should be safe for consumption and this is not only an expectation but a requirement. I would be fully satisfied when after consumption, I do not in any way feel my perosnal health is compromised. Then, we would have achieved the objectives of the standard / system.

IMO, customer satisfaction specific to food safety is indeed every much part of ISO 22000 and should be part of the system verification matrix.

[Simao Monteiro]

ISO 9001 is about customer satisfaction.
ISO 22000 is about the safety of the consumer at the time of consumption. And, most of the times, the client is not the consumer.

[Simon]

Does anyone know if FSSC 22000 mentions anything on customer satisfaction?

[Tony-C]

Does anyone know if FSSC 22000 mentions anything on customer satisfaction?

FSSC 22000 is a combination of ISO 22000 and a prerequisite requirement standard/specification.
FSSC 22000 includes prerequisite requirements in relation to 7.2.3 of BS EN ISO 22000:2005, for example for manufacturers PAS 220/TS ISO 22002 are applicable and include:
construction and layout of buildings and associated utilities
layout of premises, including workspace and employee facilities
supplies of air, water, energy and other utilities
supporting services, including waste and sewage disposal
suitability of equipment and its accessibility for cleaning, maintenance and preventive maintenance;
management of purchased materials
measures for the prevention of cross contamination
cleaning and sanitizing
pest control
personnel hygiene
rework
product recall procedures
warehousing
product information and consumer awareness
food defence, biovigilance and bioterrorism

but not Customer Satisfaction.

Regards,

Tony

Edited by Tony-C, 23 September 2011 - 03:52 AM.