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#1 Madam A. D-tor

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 01:26 PM

Dear All,

Some months ago, we had a really long and interesting discussion on e-Coli legislation.
We found out that the legislation in US where very different from the legislation in EU. EU allows larger number of E-Coli on ready to eat vegetables.
http://www.ifsqn.com...h__1#entry34262

At this moment EU is dealing with a EHEC outbreak in Germany. 1500 people are infected and 22 have died.
The cause is still unknown. After accusing cucumbers and tomatoes, the authorities now investigate the possibility that sprouts are the cause.

Do you think, that this outbreak will change the EU guidelines and limits regarding e-Coli on vegetables?


Edited by Madam A. D-tor, 06 June 2011 - 03:12 PM.

Kind Regards,

Madam A. D-tor

#2 GMO

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 02:17 PM

Really? Didn't realise it was that lenient! I would not expect to have that level of contamination on any RTE food and let's face it, bean sprouts are hardly well cooked normally.

I think the fallout from the German government will be interesting; blaming Spanish cucumbers. That will have cost Spain millions.



#3 Madam A. D-tor

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 03:17 PM

You are right. It is terrible.
Even in the Netherlands it costs the growers (42) and traders (30) around the 75 million euros already.
Today, we talked to a large trader (to Germany and UK). They doing only 3% (!!!!) of normal cucumber business and only 30% for tomatoes.


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Madam A. D-tor

#4 Simon

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 07:55 PM

I heard a microbiologist on the radio today saying it could be months before the full investigation is concluded and the culprit / root cause identified. It was reallly bad to blame Spanish cucumbers without the scientific evidence.

If EU limits are weaker than the USA I imagine they could be tightened, depending on the cause. If it were beansprouts apparently they are incubated in warm water to sprout, so ideal conditions for exponential growth.


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#5 mind over matter

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:07 AM

I heard a microbiologist on the radio today saying it could be months before the full investigation is concluded and the culprit / root cause identified. It was reallly bad to blame Spanish cucumbers without the scientific evidence.

If EU limits are weaker than the USA I imagine they could be tightened, depending on the cause. If it were beansprouts apparently they are incubated in warm water to sprout, so ideal conditions for exponential growth.

Simon obviously cannot accept poorly stated conclusion. :biggrin:
If the root cause still unknown, then how to fix it? Too long has passed since the initial outbreak. What is the maximum timeline for root cause analysis in the context of food saftey standards e.g. ISO 22000, HACCP, BRC etc?

Edited by mind over matter, 07 June 2011 - 05:14 AM.


#6 GMO

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:16 AM

I am shocked the root cause has not yet been found or confirmed. I would expect in most outbreaks this should take a matter of weeks not months. As the PP said, without root cause analysis, how can you put in corrective actions?

I mean, from what I've heard this is a rare type of E. Coli; in fact a very new strain so it's not like there will be multiple sources is it?



#7 Shajir Bran

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:54 AM

Hi all,

Pls find some facts about E.coli if any one interested...
http://www.cfsph.ias...pdfs/e_coli.pdf


Regards,,
Shajir Bran


I am shocked the root cause has not yet been found or confirmed. I would expect in most outbreaks this should take a matter of weeks not months. As the PP said, without root cause analysis, how can you put in corrective actions?

I mean, from what I've heard this is a rare type of E. Coli; in fact a very new strain so it's not like there will be multiple sources is it?



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#8 Tony-C

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:30 AM

Dear All,

Some months ago, we had a really long and interesting discussion on e-Coli legislation.
We found out that the legislation in US where very different from the legislation in EU. EU allows larger number of E-Coli on ready to eat vegetables.
http://www.ifsqn.com...h__1#entry34262

At this moment EU is dealing with a EHEC outbreak in Germany. 1500 people are infected and 22 have died.
The cause is still unknown. After accusing cucumbers and tomatoes, the authorities now investigate the possibility that sprouts are the cause.

Do you think, that this outbreak will change the EU guidelines and limits regarding e-Coli on vegetables?


Yes I have been banging on about this for ages. :angry:

The standard has to change. The legislation cannot set a limit that which is known to be dangerous - there is no point.

Regards,

Tony

Edited by Tony-C, 07 June 2011 - 02:48 PM.


#9 kaaring

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:41 AM

A couple of comments:


1. The EC Micro Criteria for Foodstuffs Regulation 2073/2005 relates to EC General Food Law Regulation 178/2002, which stipulates that food must be safe - and therefore covers all pathogens. 2073/2005 refers to limits for generic E coli only as by dint of 178/2002 there is anyway default zero tolerance on all pathogenic E coli. It is not therefore more lenient than US legislation, which doesn't even cover pathogenic E coli apart from O157.


2. One batch of Spanish cucumbers was positive for STEC - not O104, but I do not know which one. See RASFF 0703: the table in section 2 (p3) of http://ec.europa.eu/...01062011_en.pdf



3. What is needed is implementation of already-established growing standards for RTE crops, reinforced by legislation. Setting detailed micro testinig requirements diverts cash away from controls, particularly in smaller businesses.


Regards,


Kaaring



#10 Blunden

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:22 AM

Sorry GMO his has not been "going on for months"
The German response has been tracked in an article on Spiegel Online
By Veronika Hackenbroch, Samiha Shafy and Frank Thadeusz
http://www.spiegel.d...,765777,00.html
Take a look and it will give you a better idea of the hell they have been going through to cope with this umprecedented problem largely concentrated in Northern Germany.
Sit down now and write down what you ate for each meal since the 30th May...I couldn't.
The packaging is gone. You ate everything or threw it in the waste. It's probably fresh produce and you have bought two more batches since then.

Sorry Spain but if there was pathogenic e.coli on your cucumbers it may not have been O104 but it shouldn't have been there anyway.

Another problem on communications is that there are too many 'officials' and 'experts'' making pronouncements
and the media have pages to fill. Here's a few good quotes 'We may never know for certain where this came from' 'this could be terrorist attack' 'this is the result of allowing pigs to fly over produce farms' pick the odd one out.

If you beleive in prayer then pray for an answer soon, and while you are at it pray for a huge international expansion of organ donations....there could be an awful lot of people in need of new kidneys.



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#11 Muhammed Jafar

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:43 AM

Thank u Shajir, ur attachement was very helpful. Actually i was searching for the same. Thanks.


Regards,
Muhammed Jafar



#12 Kamwenji Njuma

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:06 AM

Dear,

This case has shown that there is serious problem in loss of traceability and proactive approach to minimise human loss.First they accuse spain ,cucumbers and lastly sprouts.Iam not complaining but I think EU are always very active to penalise African countries with similar problems.Had the problem originated from lets say Kenya,a worldwide total ban on kenya's horticultural and other food products could have been effected immediately and new rules and regulations released before resumption of the business.Anyway Germany being a first world should effect preventive measures to avoid recurrence of this kind so as developing countries should be confident with the regulations and standards they impose to them before trade.

Regards,
Kamwenji



#13 Muhammed Jafar

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:36 AM

@ Blunden, Thank u for these updates. Also at this time we cannot avoid wrong practices (Genetic modifications) on cattles, may be this also will alter the normal E.Coli germination (a wild guess).

Jafar



#14 Zeeshan

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:22 AM

Investigation Update: Outbreak of Shiga toxin-producing E. coli O104 (STEC O104:H4) Infections Associated with Travel to Germany

Updated June 7, 2011

* As of June 6, 2011, case counts confirmed by Germany’s Robert Koch Institute* includes 642 patients with hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS) – a type of kidney failure that is associated with E. coli or STEC infections – and 15 deaths associated with STEC O104:H4 infection.
* In the United States, one confirmed and three suspected cases of STEC O104:H4 infections have been identified in persons who recently traveled to Hamburg, Germany, where they were likely exposed.
* At this time, a specific food has not been confirmed as the source of the infections. German public health authorities advise against eating raw sprouts, tomatoes, cucumbers, and leafy salads from sources in northern Germany until further notice.

(Source: http://www.cdc.gov/e...O104/index.html)



#15 Charles.C

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:31 PM

Dear Zeeshan,

Thks for link.
@Shajir Bran, thks for yr nicely detailed attachment.

I thought a condensed but (hopefully) fairly accurate summary of the pathogenic nature of E.coli might be useful so I hv extracted/compiled some info. from several references (the originals are linked at end of each section and contain far more detail). –

Over 700 antigenic types (serotypes) of E. coli are recognized based on O, H, and K antigens. At one time serotyping was important in distinguishing the small number of strains that actually cause disease. Thus, the serotype O157:H7 (O refers to somatic antigen; H refers to flagellar antigen) is uniquely responsible for causing HUS (hemolytic uremic syndrome). Nowadays, particularly for diarrheagenic strains (those that cause diarrhea) pathogenic E. coli are classified based on their unique virulence factors and can only be identified by these traits. Hence, analysis for pathogenic E. coli usually requires that the isolates first be identified as E. coli before testing for virulence markers.

Pathogenic strains of E. coli are responsible for three types of infections in humans: urinary tract infections (UTI), neonatal meningitis, and intestinal diseases (gastroenteritis). The diseases caused (or not caused) by a particular strain of E. coli depend on distribution and expression of an array of virulence determinants, including adhesins, invasins, toxins, and abilities to withstand host defenses. For example some classified toxins are –

LT toxin
ST toxin
Shiga toxin
cytotoxins
endotoxin (LPS)

Food-wise, the last variety of the three types of infection referred above appears most relevant here, ie intestinal diseases (gastroenteritis) -

Five classes (virotypes) of E. coli that cause diarrheal diseases are now recognized: (1) enterotoxigenic E. coli (ETEC), (2) enteroinvasive E. coli (EIEC), (3) enterohemorrhagic E. coli (EHEC), (4) enteropathogenic E. coli (EPEC), and (5) enteroaggregative E. coli (EAEC).
The EHEC group is also variously (and somewhat approx.) referred to as VTEC (verocytotoxic E. coli ) and STEC ("Shiga toxin-producing” E. coli)
Each class falls within a serological subgroup and manifests distinct features in pathogenesis

The group of immediately current interest is No.5 –

(5) Enterohemorrhagic E. coli (EHEC)
EHEC are recognized as the primary cause of hemorrhagic colitis (HC) or bloody diarrhea, which can progress to the potentially fatal hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). EHEC are characterized by the production of verotoxin or Shiga toxins (Stx). Although Stx1 and Stx2 are most often implicated in human illness, several variants of Stx2 exist.
There are many serotypes of Stx-producing E. coli , but only those that have been clinically associated with HC are designated as EHEC. Of these, O157:H7 is the prototypic EHEC and most often implicated in illness worldwide. The infectious dose for O157:H7 is estimated to be 10 - 100 cells; but no information is available for other EHEC serotypes. EHEC infections are mostly food or water borne and have implicated undercooked ground beef, raw milk, cold sandwiches, water, unpasteurized apple juice and vegetables
EHEC are considered to be "moderately invasive". Nothing is known about the colonization antigens of EHEC but fimbriae are presumed to be involved. The bacteria do not invade mucosal cells as readily as Shigella, but EHEC strains produce a toxin that is virtually identical to the Shiga toxin. The toxin plays a role in the intense inflammatory response produced by EHEC strains and may explain the ability of EHEC strains to cause HUS.
( http://www.textbooko...net/e.coli.html [2011])
(I did note that several of the other groups apparently have much higher infectious doses, eg >= 106)

Here is a 2nd, USA extract also focussing on Group5 above –

Some kinds of E. coli cause disease by making a toxin called Shiga toxin. The bacteria that make these toxins are called “Shiga toxin-producing” E. coli, or STEC for short. You might hear them called verocytotoxic E. coli (VTEC) or enterohemorrhagic E. coli (EHEC); these all refer generally to the same group of bacteria. The most commonly identified STEC in North America is E. coli O157:H7 (often shortened to E. coli O157 or even just “O157”). When you hear news reports about outbreaks of “E. coli” infections, they are usually talking about E. coli O157.
In addition to E. coli O157, many other kinds (called serogroups) of STEC cause disease. These other kinds are sometimes called “non-O157 STEC.” E. coli serogroups O26, O111, and O103 are the non-O157 serogroups that most often cause illness in people in the United States.

http://www.cdc.gov/n...s/ecoli_o157h7/

and with direct relevance to the 2011 incident in Europe (O104:H4) –

Certain strains of E. coli, such as O157:H7, O104:H4, O121, O26, O103, O111, O145,and O104:H21, produce potentially lethal toxins. Food poisoning caused by E. coli usually results from eating unwashed vegetables or undercooked meat. O157:H7 is also notorious for causing serious and even life-threatening complications such as hemolytic-uremic syndrome. This particular strain is linked to the 2006 United States E. coli outbreak due to fresh spinach. The O104:H4 strain is, though rarer, still more dangerous because it is just as, if not more so, virulent. Antibiotic and supportive treatment protocols for it are not as well-developed (it has the ability to be very enterohemorrhagic like O157:H7, causing bloody diarrhea, but also is more enteroaggregative, meaning it adheres well and clumps to intestinal membranes). It is the strain behind the ongoing and deadly June 2011 E. coli outbreak in Europe. Severity of the illness varies considerably; it can be fatal, particularly to young children, the elderly or the immunocompromised, but is more often mild. Earlier, poor hygienic methods of preparing meat in Scotland killed seven people in 1996 due to E. coli poisoning, and left hundreds more infected.
E. coli can harbour both heat-stable and heat-labile enterotoxins. The latter, termed LT, contain one A subunit and five B subunits arranged into one holotoxin, and are highly similar in structure and function to cholera toxins. The B subunits assist in adherence and entry of the toxin into host intestinal cells, while the A subunit is cleaved and prevents cells from absorbing water, causing diarrhea. LT is secreted by the Type 2 secretion pathway.[30]

( http://en.wikipedia....scherichia_coli )

Some more comments (including conspiracy theories) specifically on the O104 situation can be seen here –

http://www.guardian....tibiotic-misuse
http://www.naturalne...ngineering.html

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#16 Zeeshan

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:24 AM

Investigation Update: Outbreak of Shiga toxin-producing E. coli O104 (STEC O104:H4) Infections Associated with Travel to Germany

Updated June 10, 2011


Today's Highlights

  • As of June 9, 2011, case counts confirmed by Germany’s Robert Koch Institute (RKI)* includes 759 patients with hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS)–a type of kidney failure that is associated with Shiga toxin-producing E. coli or STEC infections–and 21 deaths associated with HUS.
  • In the United States, one confirmed and four suspect cases of STEC O104:H4 infections have been identified. No deaths have been reported.
  • RKI has announced that contaminated bean sprouts were the source of the outbreak. The German public health authorities currently recommend that people in Germany not eat raw sprouts of any origin.
  • Travelers to Germany should be aware that the recommendation not to eat cucumbers, tomatoes and leafy salads in northern Germany has been lifted as of June 10.
Source: http://www.cdc.gov/e...O104/index.html


#17 Charles.C

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 01:47 PM

Dear Zeeshan,

Thks for update. Interesting to note that the (extracted) paragraph below implies that the (quoted) statement in the introductory section of my previous post regarding HUS is in need of updating, especially the word "uniquely").

As of June 9, 2011, case counts confirmed by Germany’s Robert Koch Institute* include 759 patients with hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS)–a type of kidney failure that is associated with Shiga toxin-producing E. coli or STEC infections–and 21 HUS-associated deaths


A little more detail from yr link –

According to a World Health Organization report, RKI, the Federal Institute for Risk Assessment and the Federal Office of Consumer Protection and Food Safety have announced there is substantial epidemiologic and traceback evidence indicating that fresh sprouts produced by a farm in Lower Saxony are responsible for the current outbreak in Germany. German public health authorities currently recommend that people in Germany not eat raw sprouts of any origin. Trace back investigations of the food chain indicate that no sprouts or other food items from the implicated farm in Lower Saxony have been exported outside Germany. Travelers to Germany should be aware that the recommendation not to eat cucumbers, tomatoes and leafy salads in northern Germany has been lifted as of June 10.


I didn’t notice any claim of actual (so far) microbiological identification of E.coli O104, however some direct evidence has just been reported –

http://www.thehindub...icle2095961.ece

Just for information, here is a comment on bean sprouts in an overview of vegetable “sanitizing” previously posted here -

One very special vegetable exception to above generalisation is bean sprouts due to their extremely nasty track record. This has a semi-official (I think) disinfection procedure in USA involving a massive chlorination dosage due to the potentially equally massive levels of particularly Salmonella (eg log7) and E.coli O157 which can arise in the growth cycle. The estimated elimination requirements are described in document 1(iv). The (eliminating) chlorine dosage can be up to 20,000ppm (eg see http://www.fda.gov/f...s/ucm078789.htm )


(
http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__36594 )

(Of course it is possible that in the current case a different process or raw material type is involved so the risk analysis is different :dunno: [2 obvious differences are the location and the strain of E.coli])

Rgds / Charles.C

added - this link looks quite interesting also -

http://www.newscient...old-e-coli.html

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#18 WayneL

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:54 PM

Is this strain really that new? See: http://www.bgisequen...y-e-coli-strai/

Would high-pressure pasteurization work with bean sprouts?

Wayne (USA)



I am shocked the root cause has not yet been found or confirmed. I would expect in most outbreaks this should take a matter of weeks not months. As the PP said, without root cause analysis, how can you put in corrective actions?

I mean, from what I've heard this is a rare type of E. Coli; in fact a very new strain so it's not like there will be multiple sources is it?



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#19 GMO

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 06:15 AM

Pasteurise a beansprout and it would be very floppy!

Sorry, I wasn't aware that a batch of cucumbers had tested positive. I was just confused that there still seems to be uncertainty about the source and people are dying. There seemed to be a desire to announce before there was certainty and also they seem unable to find the source. Can anyone think of other outbreaks which have seemed so badly handled? I can't. Beansprouts are notorious for food poisoning as well so it would be a more obvious source than cucumbers. I suspect that irrespective of spanish cucumbers testing positive (which if they have it's not been reported at all in the UK as far as I'm aware), there was a tendency to want to look outside of their own production facilities to find the cause. That could have cost lives.



#20 mind over matter

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 03:06 AM

Does anyone has an idea of the process flow, procedures, actual equipment/facilities available at the farm in Lower Saxony? Are there any reports about it?


Edited by mind over matter, 15 June 2011 - 10:11 AM.


#21 mind over matter

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 03:47 PM

There is no effective treatment for E. coli patients who are currently suffering from epileptic seizures, kidney failure or strokes.

http://www.spiegel.d...,766918,00.html






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