11 replies to this topic

[Bre]

Hello everyone-

 

 

I am curious to see what makes people choose a specific certification body?

 

How likely are you to change to another certification body after a first successful audit?

 

Also, what would you like to see different about a CB or what do you like about a CB?

 

Just curious, Its not like we have a lot to choose from when it comes to BRC CB's....

 

 

Best regards,

Breann

Edited by Bre, 26 November 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[Charles.C]

Dear bre,

 

For starters, here are a few random earlier thoughts listed in descending order of posts/thread -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...why/#entry29308

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ody/#entry61023

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...odies/#entry303

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Bre]

Charles-

 

Thanks! This was helpful, but I need more information from members. I want to figure out how a CB can better fill the needs of their clients to make things easier for them. What's a clients top ten wish list you wish the CB could of helped you with? I am in the process of putting together a little research project.

 

All the best,

Bre

[George @ Safefood 360°]

Hi Bre,

 

I have worked with many clients over the years and thus have been exposed to many CB's for the BRC Standard. The answer is one of those "how long is a piece of string?". It really depends on what your culture and policy is. Some businesses simply want the certificate on the wall in reception and will go with the cheapest and less pedantic CB they can find. I'm not making any judgement here, just pointing out how some companies view it. On the other hand some companies seek to find a CB who can add value to the development of their food safety system through knowledgeable, insightful and competent auditors. This makes for a tougher certification audit but over time a more robust FSM.

 

So I would suggest that you start from your company's policy. What is it YOU want from you CB? Do you want them to get in and out and provide you a certificate with the minimum of fuss or do you want them to challenge you, your system and level of food safety control? Figure this out and you will be able to gauge the CB performance.

 

I hope this helps.

 

George

[Tony-C]

Hello everyone-

 

 

I am curious to see what makes people choose a specific certification body?

 

How likely are you to change to another certification body after a first successful audit?

 

Also, what would you like to see different about a CB or what do you like about a CB?

 

Just curious, Its not like we have a lot to choose from when it comes to BRC CB's....

 

 

Best regards,

Breann

 

Hi Breann,

 

Most people are unlikely to change until the certificate expires unless they are particularly unhappy.

 

I personally look for reputation, history of providing certification, customer views of certification body, experience of auditors and prior dealings.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[cazyncymru]

Don't forget that the food industry is quite incestuous, so ask your contacts who they use and what they think.

 

Over the years I have used a number of CB's, and I know which ones I wouldn't touch with a barge pole!

 

Caz x

[Simon]

Over the years I have used a number of CB's, and I know which ones I wouldn't touch with a barge pole!

 

Caz x

 

Agree 100%.

[KTD]

Hi Bre -

 

     Interesting that this topic popped up now. I am having discussions with the 2 CBs I currently use. I am getting what I believe is the same quality of service from both, but at about a 30% difference in cost. I can honestly say in our 5 years of BRC certification, I have never been asked which CB I am using.

[Antores]

Breann.

Do you work for a food company and are looking for a certification body.. or do you work for a certification body and you are making some market research here? I’m curious not only because of the way you are asking, but also because the answer may be different depending of what are you looking for..   

[Antores]

I totally agree with George.. It depends of what the customer wants..This is no different than buying any other service or product… Some people want quality, customer service, business relationships,  etc, but others just want it cheap..

 

With that said, there are factors you must consider. I have used several food safety schemes and have used several auditing companies as well. Here is what I look for,

1. Do not look for an Auditing Company First. Look FIRST for what Audit Scheme you need. What Audit Scheme will meet your customer requirements and fit your operational needs?  (SQF, BRC, Global-GAP, ISO2200, Harmonized Audit… etc) Auditing Bodies are approved only for certain types of audits, but not for all. If you contact a certification body they will try to get you in to one of the audits they do.  It may not be a bad one, but may not be the one you need.
2. Once you know what Audit Scheme you need, look for what certification bodies are approved for that audit. Then look carefully if you your customers have any restrictions on certification bodies. For some reason in USA, some customers list only certain certification bodies. That will help you narrow down the list.
3. After you have the list of certification bodies that make the audit you need, and that are approved by your customers, you can start “shopping”.  Again.. What is important to you? Price? Quality? Service? Auditing Body Market Recognition?. I personally look for:

• Auditors: What is the experience of the auditors, especially on the products that you pack/manufacture? Where are the auditors located? All on West Coast when you need service on East Coast (This could mean higher travel expensed and less availability), what is the reputation of those auditors in the industry?
• Service: Are they responsive to your request? Do they answer your questions and concerns in an efficient manner? Are they responsive and helpful? Can you call them anytime and they will be there for you? Do you communicate with one person who knows you, your company and and your needs, or you have to talk with somebody different along different stages of the auditing process?. An specific example here: If you have an emergency and need an audit to be scheduled sooner than usual (Lets say a week), what do they say?  Sorry, we have no auditors until after 2 months.. OR, do they try their best to accommodate an auditor for you (although it may not be always possible)..
• Quality: If possible I would like to read some audits done to other customers.  An almost empty audits with just “yes”, and “no” for answers  reflects, at least for me, lack of quality on the auditor and certification body, and audits with deep comments and notes reflects better audits as it shows the auditor was paying attention and focused on the audit… I know this may depend more of the auditor than the certification body, but a good certification body won’t let an auditor to make an “almost-empty” report. This again depends of what you want.. As George said, some just want it cheap and easy.
• And of course Price.  Although I know there may be big differences in prices among different Audit Schemes, once you select a scheme I don’t think the price of that audit among certification bodies will be so much different, as prices are self-regulated by market (at least in USA) .. for what I see, all certification bodies charge about the same price for the same type of audit, and any different in price won’t be big enough to be a deal breaker..  But id worth to look at the price and additional charges, such as travel time and travel expenses.

Edited by Antores, 02 December 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Simon]

Good advice Antores.  In my experience there are are extremely good certification bodies (auditors) and all shades of grey to outright fraudsters. The Certification Body you choose depends on where you are at with your FSMS; if you work very hard to have an effective FSMS then you want an audit that gives a thorough examination and drives continual improvement then you will want to work with an professional, ethical auditing body.  If you have a weak system and need the badge then you go for the charlatan or fail.

 

A few year's back I had to implement a system in double quick time and I worked very, very hard to get it ready.  The certification body I chose was a joke, the auditor didn't know the requirements of the standard, or the auditing protocol and needless to say the audit was an absolute joke.  We passed with flying colours.  I felt violated and cheated, but of course I accepted the certificate, I deserved it and we needed it.  The next audit was conducted by a different Certification Body.  

[john.kukoly]

Breann, Antores got it right on. There are actually a fair number of CB's that can perform the BRC audit in the United States, just check the BRC Directory for the list. One interesting point on the Directory list, the CB's are rated by the BRC (1 to 5 stars) based on adherence to key indicators around quality and service time.

 

As mentioned, it does depend on what you value (service, price, specific calendar...).  Price is the easiest to compare (if you see a significant variance, ask why, it's either the day rate, or the length of audit, which should be fairly consistant across the CB's). Service takes a little effort on your part, but after a couple of discussions you should know pretty well if they are responsive enough to you.

 

John