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Magnetic Trap Critical Limit

Metal dust magnetic trap critical limit

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#1 jaejay

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 08:38 AM

Hi guys,

  

  We installed magnetic trap at each line. I really need helps regarding on how to set the critical limit for metal dust. We did check on the weight of metal dust collected from the magnet rods, but just for record without any critical limit.

 

 I would like to set a limit for this. The problem is the frequency running is not fixed. We have options options to fix in by week/ days, or by changeover product. If we were to fixed on weeks/days, the batches running during that period of time is not fixed. If we were to fixed on every changeover product, the total batches running before changeover is also not fixed.
 

  I also can try set limit based on the records we previously had. But previous record was done based on every changeover product. 

 

Can any kind souls help me and give your opinion on this please  :crying:



#2 Ehab Nassar

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:35 AM

Hi jaejay ,

 

More details required to give more specific feedback ,

 

  1. - Is the magnetic trap is a CCP in your process , or it is a control point and there is another point after it is controlling the risk as CCP.
  2. - The product passing through the magnetic trap is it a raw , semi finished or final product .
  3. - What is the maximum capacity of the metal dust for the magnetic trap ,Heavily contaminated magnets lose separation ability - pulling and holding power decreased( i mean after this load the trap will not be effective ).

 

-Normally the magnetic trap is to remove ferrous objectives , so if it is a CCP in the system , the control limits is either the magnetic trap working or not working , or we can set a limit for the metal dust weight as per question 3 above , and then judge the magnetic trap beside assuring it is working , 

 

I believe that the monitoring records is a important step,  use it to decide the frequency of checks , from your record you will know the level of contamination and  expect when it should be checked and cleaned .

 

your historical records could give you 

  • Heavily contaminated magnets lose separation ability (pulling and holding power decreased).
  • Expect complete cleaning and removal of any metallic materials (supplier performance implications , timing for decision making).
  • Understand product flow, accumulations.

As per my experience I were checking it at the change over before the cleaning , however it depends on the process , in line placement , how easy to check , can we check during operation or not .

 

So if you want to set the critical limits if needed you can :

 

  • Maximum limit is : 

                                        - magnetic trap is working 

                                        - metal trapped weight less than the  maximum load for the magnetic trap ( you can get it from magnetic trap standard or you can use a lower limit as per your historical                                                         records ) .

  • Frequency of checks  :

                                       - As per your historical records , process , availability to check 

  • Corrective action  :

                                        - Replace the magnetic trap with a lager one or reduce the frequency of cleaning .

 

hopefully this could help .

Best regards,

Ehab



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#3 jaejay

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:44 AM

Hi jaejay ,

 

More details required to give more specific feedback ,

 

  1. - Is the magnetic trap is a CCP in your process , or it is a control point and there is another point after it is controlling the risk as CCP.
  2. - The product passing through the magnetic trap is it a raw , semi finished or final product .
  3. - What is the maximum capacity of the metal dust for the magnetic trap ,Heavily contaminated magnets lose separation ability - pulling and holding power decreased( i mean after this load the trap will not be effective ).

 

-Normally the magnetic trap is to remove ferrous objectives , so if it is a CCP in the system , the control limits is either the magnetic trap working or not working , or we can set a limit for the metal dust weight as per question 3 above , and then judge the magnetic trap beside assuring it is working , 

 

I believe that the monitoring records is a important step,  use it to decide the frequency of checks , from your record you will know the level of contamination and  expect when it should be checked and cleaned .

 

your historical records could give you 

  • Heavily contaminated magnets lose separation ability (pulling and holding power decreased).
  • Expect complete cleaning and removal of any metallic materials (supplier performance implications , timing for decision making).
  • Understand product flow, accumulations.

As per my experience I were checking it at the change over before the cleaning , however it depends on the process , in line placement , how easy to check , can we check during operation or not .

 

So if you want to set the critical limits if needed you can :

 

  • Maximum limit is :

                                        - magnetic trap is working 

                                        - metal trapped weight less than the  maximum load for the magnetic trap ( you can get it from magnetic trap standard or you can use a lower limit as per your historical                                                         records ) .

  • Frequency of checks  :

                                       - As per your historical records , process , availability to check 

  • Corrective action  :

                                        - Replace the magnetic trap with a lager one or reduce the frequency of cleaning .

 

hopefully this could help .

Best regards,

Ehab

 

Thank you Mr. Ehab Nassar.

 

  1. Our Magnetic trap is not a ccp, just a prp, and we have metal detector after magnetic trap. 

  2. Our product is processing final product in paste form.

  3. I am not quite sure regarding our maximum capacity but the strength of each rod is 10000 gauss.

 

I was thinking to count an average of the weight by simply dividing the total weight of metal dust with the number of batches running, and from there i just gonna set the maximum limit by batches. All this will be done by using records in our keeping. Do you think i still need to find articles, references, or journals to support my method?

Honestly i've tried to find one but found only a few that is similar to ours.

 

But really, thank you so much for your idea.



#4 Charles.C

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 01:41 PM

Hi jaejay,

 

Maybe there is a little confusion somewhere.

 

"Critical Limit" is a haccp term used only with a CCP. Not required for PRPs.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#5 Ehab Nassar

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 03:25 PM


 

  1. Our Magnetic trap is not a ccp, just a prp, and we have metal detector after magnetic trap. 

 

so it should be OPRP accordingly you don’t need to define a critical limit , totally agree with Charles .

there is a good link below for CCP, OPRP and PRP , it will revoke any confusion . 

http://blog.etq.com/...rp-oprp-podcast

 

 


  2. Our product is processing final product in paste form.

 

 

 

the best way is to inspect just before cleaning or line change over

 

 


  3. I am not quite sure regarding our maximum capacity but the strength of each rod is 10000 gauss.

 

 

 you can refer to the supplier , if not possible you can relay on your history , during the inspection .

 

 

I was thinking to count an average of the weight by simply dividing the total weight of metal dust with the number of batches running, and from there i just gonna set the maximum limit by batches. All this will be done by using records in our keeping. Do you think i still need to find articles, references, or journals to support my method?

Honestly i've tried to find one but found only a few that is similar to ours.

 

no need for that , all what you need to assure that the magnetic trap is working and it is not heavily loaded so there is no losing metals in the product , regarding the average and calculations we could not relay on it , the contamination is sporadic does not obey normal distribution roles .

i suggest that you monitor the magnet trap per per tons of pasta ,regardless the batches , the main purpose of monitoring is assure 1) it is working   2) not heavily loaded 

 

Best regards,

Ehab



#6 Charles.C

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 03:39 PM

Hi Ehab,

 

Not sure if this is Iso/fssc22000 or not (I deduce that some haccp-users are maybe introducing "OPRP"s in non-iso/fssc22000 scenarios. Out of the frying pan ......?) .

 

Personally i would have anyway left the magnet as a PRP (if anything) but I guess it's a question of interpretational preferences (and maybe enjoyment in documentation).

 

As long as control is achieved .... :whistle:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#7 jaejay

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 01:47 AM

Hi Mr. Charles.C,

 

   We have no problem with our HACCP auditor, just that our customers keep on asking for critical limit . We did explain that we checked the strength annually to make sure its 10000 gauss. Have metal detector as CCP after the magnetic trap, and it is a PRP.

 

Thanks for the link Mr Ehab, gonna go through it. 

 

Thanks 



#8 Ehab Nassar

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 09:10 AM

Hi Jaejay ,

 

what is the system you are complying with , please confirm is it  ISO /FSSC 22000

 

you are right Charles , my feedback were according to  ISO /FSSC 22000 , I should confirm first   :blush:



#9 Charles.C

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 10:21 AM

Hi Ehab,

 

Actually, it is evident (eg yr interesting podcast) that numerous haccp-users have decided to 'borrow" iso's invention and apply as per their own "definitions".

I also believe IFS have defined (their) OPRP to be equal to a CP. Another group are interpreting it with respect to "Vectors".

 

We may soon have to ask "whose OPRP ?".

 

PS - IMO the fault for all this confusion (11 years on !)  basically lies with ISO since they have perpetuated the ambiguity regarding the scope of an OPRP.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#10 Hema Subramaniam

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 07:15 AM

Hi guys,

  

Recently we installed magnetic trap at each of our process line. We are producing sweetened condensed milk/creamer and evaporated milk.

I really need helps regarding on how to set the critical limit for metal dust. Is it base on the weight of metal dust collected from the magnet rods or just by observing the present of metal dust? 

 

 Our process plant cip (cleaning in plant) every 48 hours once, hence can I set the cleaning limit according to cip or by batch.

 This is totally new in our process plant and non of my superior able to guide me. Guess this is new for them too. 

 

I need to set the parameter and create SOP asap.

 

Can any kind souls help me on this.  

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

Hema Subramaniam



#11 Charles.C

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 08:04 AM

 

Hi guys,

  

Recently we installed magnetic trap at each of our process line. We are producing sweetened condensed milk/creamer and evaporated milk.

I really need helps regarding on how to set the critical limit for metal dust. Is it base on the weight of metal dust collected from the magnet rods or just by observing the present of metal dust? 

 

 Our process plant cip (cleaning in plant) every 48 hours once, hence can I set the cleaning limit according to cip or by batch.

 This is totally new in our process plant and non of my superior able to guide me. Guess this is new for them too. 

 

I need to set the parameter and create SOP asap.

 

Can any kind souls help me on this.  

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

Hema Subramaniam

 

 

Seems similar to the OP

 

Hopefully you will get further answers..


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C






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