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Ptinid

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:03 PM

:huh:

I am very surprised by this as local authorities in the UK prosecute companies for poor pest control arrangements. So if they have recommended a Pest Controller it would be difficult as far as I can see how they could prosecute unless it they could show neligence in ignoring the pest controller's recommendations.

Regards,

Tony


Agree. My experience is that some Local Authorities will have a list of available PC companies, but the don't recommend them. Any EHO who does could be considered as open to undue influence.


Bunny

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:41 PM

Don`t forget chap Flavour is based in Germany where they probably do things differently.

In the UK any attempt to offer the name of a specific company by an EHO undertaking a food hygiene is not allowed,

I personally have in my professional life have been given proof of such practices and have been successful in securing a serious disciplinary hearing against that individual.

Bunny :biggrin:


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GMO

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 06:29 AM

The contracted Pest Controller would do that - I don't have a dog and bark, not very often anyway ! :smile:

Regards,

Tony



Our pest controller is a major well known supplier and they've never done this (despite my asking). They are a BPCA member and it's a struggle to get accurate baiting plans out of them let alone a risk assessment. The same contractor at other sites can be anything from excellent to worse as it depends far too much on the quality of the technician and field biologist. We've also found that since I took over control of looking after the contractor, more pests have been found, partly because looking for signs of pests is on my audit checklist so we report in. Shockingly I've found rat burrows which have been missed by the contractor (less than 2m away from bait points!)

Unfortunately I have no say in their reappointment as contracts are decided upon at a group level. I constantly pass on my feedback about them and about our laundry (which if anything is even worse) but it comes down to a group purchasing director deciding to get the contract for all sites £10,000 cheaper even if the standard is poor.

Edited by GMO, 03 November 2010 - 06:29 AM.


Bunny

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:14 PM

Our pest controller is a major well known supplier and they've never done this (despite my asking). They are a BPCA member and it's a struggle to get accurate baiting plans out of them let alone a risk assessment. The same contractor at other sites can be anything from excellent to worse as it depends far too much on the quality of the technician and field biologist. We've also found that since I took over control of looking after the contractor, more pests have been found, partly because looking for signs of pests is on my audit checklist so we report in. Shockingly I've found rat burrows which have been missed by the contractor (less than 2m away from bait points!)

Unfortunately I have no say in their reappointment as contracts are decided upon at a group level. I constantly pass on my feedback about them and about our laundry (which if anything is even worse) but it comes down to a group purchasing director deciding to get the contract for all sites £10,000 cheaper even if the standard is poor.



Unfortunately GMO this just backs up the old adage.

"you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

Bunny :thumbdown:

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GMO

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 05:21 PM

Unfortunately GMO this just backs up the old adage.

"you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

Bunny :thumbdown:



Completely, I agree but I still wouldn't expect the poor standard of service we get from our pest supplier just because they're a major name. Not sure if I'm being naive there though.


Bunny

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 01:42 PM

It really is horses for courses GMO, there is a vast chasm of experience and quality in the pest control industry in this country. Just because you are using a major national company doesn`t necessarily mean you are getting the quality you require which your comments are bearing ou.

I won`t bore you with details but you should consider several things`

1, The company is hamstrung by time restrictions, the central buyer has put so much time into knocking down the price of the service he has forgotten that value for money is more important, the service will only reflect what is paid to the company servicing the site will be. All companies are in business to make money, I will not entertain a service agreement with a client if I am not making a profit on the contract.

2, The company and service provided is only as good or competant as the technician, if he isn`t interested he will not undertake the work correctly or with any great enthusiasm. This is probably a problem for the service provider but nonetheless you require a technician whom is enthused about his work and is interested in helping your company meet the requirements of your pest control contract sadly many of the major companies fall short of this mark.

3, And this is largely a gripe on my part, it cost`s a good deal of money to run a pest control company properly without cutting corners. There is a general problem within the industry that pest control is seen as a "bolt on" service of your cleaning contracts. So therefore the industry is badly devalued, It is a good deal more than that and is in of it`s own right a science based profession.

There are several changes in the pipeline coming the way of the industry it will impact on all facets of the pest control industry , this will likely result in less companies in the short term until the smaller companies meet the demands of the accreditation/licencing of all public health pest controllers under the "EU Sustainability Directive".

Some companies will drop out because they will be required to ensure that all their technicians will be trained and qualified to a minimum standard and follow the CPD route, this costs money, so the end user will have to foot some of the bill for better qualified and better trained pest control technicians. This is not pie in the sky, it is coming within the next 5-7 years and will be manditory.

I`m ready so let`s see who else is :smarty:

Bunny :biggrin:


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Tony-C

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 06:44 PM

Unfortunately I have no say in their reappointment as contracts are decided upon at a group level.


Then you don't have the level of authority or influence to manage food safety within your organisation and from reading your posts and frustrations it is no fault of your own. :angry: I have seen similar situations within large organisations that offer large group contracts to the detriment of the individual sites.

Kind regards,

Tony


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Posted 08 November 2010 - 07:34 PM

It really is horses for courses GMO, there is a vast chasm of experience and quality in the pest control industry in this country. Just because you are using a major national company doesn`t necessarily mean you are getting the quality you require which your comments are bearing ou.
I`m ready so let`s see who else is :smarty:

Bunny :biggrin:


11 posts could be considered spam :oops2: ?

:diespam:


Bunny

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 10:32 PM

Your point being :dunno:

it`s 12 now :thumbup:


Edited by Bunny, 08 November 2010 - 10:32 PM.

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Simon

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:39 AM

Your point being :dunno:

it`s 12 now :thumbup:

And let's hope it's many, many more. I don't see any of your posts as being spam or contarvening our T & C's Bunny. Pleae continue to share your expertise on pest control - maybe on a few different topics. :smarty:

Back on topic please everyone.

Thanks,
Simon

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GMO

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:11 AM

Then you don't have the level of authority or influence to manage food safety within your organisation and from reading your posts and frustrations it is no fault of your own. :angry: I have seen similar situations within large organisations that offer large group contracts to the detriment of the individual sites.

Kind regards,

Tony



As you say this is common practice in big organisations and you can see the sense. Why allow each site to negotiate their own contracts when you can get a better price by negotiating centrally? Makes sense as long as each site is asked for feedback (and that feedback is acted upon and central contracts are awarded on value not just cost.)


Tony-C

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:51 PM

As you say this is common practice in big organisations and you can see the sense. Why allow each site to negotiate their own contracts when you can get a better price by negotiating centrally? Makes sense as long as each site is asked for feedback (and that feedback is acted upon and central contracts are awarded on value not just cost.)


I agree, one other thing is that the contract specification needs to be quite clear on the standard of service required. Sometimes the best way to deal with poor performance with multi-site contracts is for someone to communicate, collate and co-ordinate the technical/service issues from each site. That way the service issues can be tackled at a group level with the contractor perhaps by quarterly performance reviews as well as routine on site management.

Regards,

Tony


Ptinid

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 04:10 PM

`

There are several changes in the pipeline coming the way of the industry it will impact on all facets of the pest control industry , this will likely result in less companies in the short term until the smaller companies meet the demands of the accreditation/licencing of all public health pest controllers under the "EU Sustainability Directive".

Some companies will drop out because they will be required to ensure that all their technicians will be trained and qualified to a minimum standard and follow the CPD route, this costs money, so the end user will have to foot some of the bill for better qualified and better trained pest control technicians. This is not pie in the sky, it is coming within the next 5-7 years and will be manditory.

I`m ready so let`s see who else is :smarty:

Bunny :biggrin:



The requirement for accreditation has been a long time coming, and we in the UK are well behind some of our European couterparts (Netherlands for example) where PCOs are required to be licensed, not just show CPD points.

However, the idea is great, and needs to be supported by the industry. It will also need to be driven by customers and audit bodies who will need to start to INSIST upon seeing the training documentation of the Technician and Field Biologist (and responsible Manager IMHO). In the UK that will mean BPCA or equivalent certificates and BASIS cards.

The issue is that I suspect that some of the 'big boys' will not be ready - through inertia ot lack of willingness to commit to the costs. They may be in a position to slow everything down...or am I being excessively cynical??

We're not ready - yet - but we will be by January! :thumbup:


Bunny

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 03:30 PM

The requirement for accreditation has been a long time coming, and we in the UK are well behind some of our European couterparts (Netherlands for example) where PCOs are required to be licensed, not just show CPD points.

However, the idea is great, and needs to be supported by the industry. It will also need to be driven by customers and audit bodies who will need to start to INSIST upon seeing the training documentation of the Technician and Field Biologist (and responsible Manager IMHO). In the UK that will mean BPCA or equivalent certificates and BASIS cards.

The issue is that I suspect that some of the 'big boys' will not be ready - through inertia ot lack of willingness to commit to the costs. They may be in a position to slow everything down...or am I being excessively cynical??

We're not ready - yet - but we will be by January! :thumbup:


Once apon a time I would have said that you where being rightly cynical, but the criteria for membership of the BPCA changes at the beginning of 2011.

within 3 years ALL staff in a pest control company that is responsible for the application of pesticides will be qualified to a minimum standard which will probably be the BPCA/RSHP level 2 in pest control and be part of a recognised CPD scheme.

The board have been dragging their heels for about 8 years now when a few bloody minded individuals on the board scuppered all attempts to bring this industry into the 21st century, fortunately they have now either died or left the industry and a good job too IMHO :thumbup:

You are obviously in the industry yourself Ptinid, have we met???

If you know Bunny from the UKPCO then you won`t forget me in a hurry

Bunny :clap:

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Ptinid

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:22 AM

Once apon a time I would have said that you where being rightly cynical, but the criteria for membership of the BPCA changes at the beginning of 2011.

within 3 years ALL staff in a pest control company that is responsible for the application of pesticides will be qualified to a minimum standard which will probably be the BPCA/RSHP level 2 in pest control and be part of a recognised CPD scheme.

The board have been dragging their heels for about 8 years now when a few bloody minded individuals on the board scuppered all attempts to bring this industry into the 21st century, fortunately they have now either died or left the industry and a good job too IMHO :thumbup:

You are obviously in the industry yourself Ptinid, have we met???

If you know Bunny from the UKPCO then you won`t forget me in a hurry

Bunny :clap:


I remain to be convinced, Bunny :unsure:, but you never know - it might work. Too many years seeing things just not quite happen!

Don't think we've met. I work primarily in Scotland and tend not to get to the big meetings.





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