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Do we need to provide evidence of cleaning water temperature?

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#1 Padfoot

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 08:19 PM

Hello everyone!

In our sanitation program we state that we will clean our machines and utensils with water temperature 90 degrees Fahrenheit, does that mean that i have to prove that the water is that temperature? 



#2 eodie

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 08:39 PM

 You can prove this a few different ways.

Simplest way would be a temperature log when you're starting your sanitation cleaning.
 You can also used the specifications from your boiler and a weekly or daily test log showing the temperature of the water in your facility.


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#3 Padfoot

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 08:43 PM

 

 You can prove this a few different ways.

Simplest way would be a temperature log when you're starting your sanitation cleaning.
 You can also used the specifications from your boiler and a weekly or daily test log showing the temperature of the water in your facility.

 

but do i HAVE to prove it? 



#4 SQFconsultant

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 08:48 PM

Yes.


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Glenn Oster
 
GOC BUSINESS GROUP | SQF System Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants
 

 

Serving the New Republic of the United States of America, Costa Rica, Panama & Caribbean Islands

 

 


#5 eodie

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 11:57 PM

Yes you do have to prove it because you haven't listed that you are using 90° water. What you might want to do is reword your procedure and give yourself arrange that might make it will easier for your validation and verification step when you're doing your internal audit.



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#6 mahantesh.micro

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 04:19 AM

Dear Alem

You have to prove that the temperature of water used for sanitation is 90 degree F. The simplest form of proving is to measure water temperature of water with a calibrated, preferably pen type electronic temperature gauge before start of sanitation and record this temperature in your cleaning log. I hope you have also mentioned this in your cleaning & sanitation procedure.



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#7 zanorias

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 06:02 AM

but do i HAVE to prove it? 

 

I hope you don't put it that way to an auditor :lol2:



#8 Padfoot

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 03:56 PM

thank you everyone. management was asking me "well what if we just take the temperature of the water out of the program?" would that be a solution?



#9 wtheriot

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 08:35 PM

thank you everyone. management was asking me "well what if we just take the temperature of the water out of the program?" would that be a solution?

Yes removing it is a solution to "proving" the temperature. However, what was the reason for the 90 degree temp to begin with? If there is no need to have a certain temperature then I would not state one but if there is a standard that must be met due to a chemical / cleaner you use then YES...you must state it and prove it.

 

Keep this in mind on all Food Safety policies and procedures. If you state a specific number be prepared to "prove it". You must validate and verify things that you have target numbers for.



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#10 majoy

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 09:03 PM

Depends on your cleaning chemicals and the degree of soil you have in your facility.

 

Some cleaning chemicals recommendation is to use warm / hot water etc. Most chemicals can be used with cold or hot water.

 

Also, hot / warm water removes soil more efficiently than cold / ambient water, imo especially if its grease, oil heavy.


Edited by majoy, 05 September 2019 - 09:03 PM.

"Whatever you do, do it well..." - Walt Disney


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#11 bakeryscience

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 09:28 PM

Do you use heat to sanitize?



#12 Sam30

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 05:56 AM

any change needs to be validated...do your validation that temperature of water doesn't matter and cleaning will be effective without it. Generally Contact Time, Temperature & Concentration of Chemical are the critical aspects to be monitored to ensure cleaning is effective



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#13 Setanta

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:47 AM

but do i HAVE to prove it? 

Yes. 


-Setanta         

 

 

 


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#14 Padfoot

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:02 PM

no we don't

Do you use heat to sanitize?



#15 Setanta

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:10 PM

Also, in my experience, 90F isn't going to be deemed hot enough for cleaning.  We needed to add a boiler to ensure cleaning water temps over 130F for SQF


-Setanta         

 

 

 


#16 Padfoot

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:11 PM

Also, in my experience, 90F isn't going to be deemed hot enough for cleaning.  We needed to add a boiler to ensure cleaning water temps over 130F for SQF

I'm not really sure why we have 90 to 120 in our program since we have the boilers at 140 degrees



#17 Setanta

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 03:19 PM

I'm not really sure why we have 90 to 120 in our program since we have the boilers at 140 degrees

But your water isn't at 140. 


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#18 Agie_19

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 04:07 PM

but do i HAVE to prove it? 

 

yes you need to prove it. anything that you declare on your procedure should have proof that you actually do it.


Edited by Agie_19, 06 September 2019 - 04:08 PM.


#19 Padfoot

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 04:08 PM

But your water isn't at 140. 

yes it is 



#20 zanorias

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 04:22 PM

yes it is 

 

Prove it? 

 

Sorry couldn't resist  :sofa1:



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#21 Padfoot

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 04:24 PM

Prove it? 

 

Sorry couldn't resist  :sofa1:

hahahahahahahaha got me



#22 Setanta

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 04:39 PM

Hello everyone!

In our sanitation program we state that we will clean our machines and utensils with water temperature 90 degrees Fahrenheit, does that mean that i have to prove that the water is that temperature? 

You said your water is at 90 which is not the same as 140

 

Your boiler is set at 140F and you SAY your water temp is 90F. 

A. I don't think that is warm enough to clean

B. You will need to demonstrate this temp either way


-Setanta         

 

 

 


#23 Parkz58

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 04:36 PM

The boiler temperature does NOT tell you what temperature your cleaning water is, unless you are literally drawing your cleaning water straight out of the boiler.

 

Traveling through pipes, even just a few feet, will cool the water.  Insulated pipes will reduce the cooling rate..but even they won't keep it the exact same temperature.

 

The water temperature that matters in this situation is at POINT OF USE, and if you say it's a certain temperature in your procedures, then you must prove it with documented records - I would start with recording the temperature every time you draw water for cleaning, and assuming it is consistently within tolerable variation (something else you should put in your procedure, is the chance of getting the water the exact same temperature every single time is nil, at best) for a week or two, you could probably back off to just testing it once a day.

 

I'm surprised to hear you say that your SOP states 90 degrees, rather than a range (like, 85 - 95 degrees, for example)...I've never heard of any requirements so exact and specific before.  Is there a reason for it in your case?

 

Don't be too hasty to jump to the "easy" solution of just removing the temperature requirements altogether - you need to talk to the manufacturer/supplier of your cleaning chemicals to find out what they recommend for water temperature.  Some products require a specific temperature range; others do not.  You need to follow the manufacturer specifications.  If there are none, then by all means, remove the temperature requirements from your SOP...but I would replace them with at least some sort of "felt range", like "ambient" or "cool" or "warm", depending on the application.



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