9 replies to this topic

[QAKat]

Hello All, 

 

I recently requested quotes from different companies regarding the calibration and validation for our metal detector and some can only calibrate but not validate. I found one that stated they do both but are now telling me that they can only validate and to be careful with other companies because only the manufacturer of the detector can do the calibration. Is this true?

They also said that because they are not the manufacturer all they can do is give us a certificate of validation, the tech comes out passes the test pieces with product and validates that the detector is working.

 

Our metal detector was purchased from a company that sells machinery but the actual metal detector is from China and the company it was bought from renamed the detector to their company name (it was really tough finding the actual manufacturer). The manufacturer is only located in China and Germany so they cannot come out to calibrate it. 

 

I have other companies telling me that they can come out and calibrate/certify the detector but now I'm suspicious. 

 

Please help! I have Walmart asking for the validation 

 

Thank you.

[jfrey123]

Check with the companies telling you they can perform the calibration, and ask them to provide the records proving they are qualified to certify that machine.  I agree getting the manufacturer to provide the certification is ideal, but you've determined that's not currently possible.  But if you can find a company with a training program that specifically covers the machines you own, and can get records proving that, I don't see how an auditor could find fault.

[QAKat]

Check with the companies telling you they can perform the calibration, and ask them to provide the records proving they are qualified to certify that machine.  I agree getting the manufacturer to provide the certification is ideal, but you've determined that's not currently possible.  But if you can find a company with a training program that specifically covers the machines you own, and can get records proving that, I don't see how an auditor could find fault.

Hi jfrey123 :)

 

Thank you for always being so helpful. 

That's a great idea that I wouldn't have thought about especially being so stressed my mind just closes sometimes. 

 

[Charles.C]

Strangely similar to another parallel thread/OP -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...it/#entry195872

 

I don't really see the problem - assuming Walmarr's validation requirements (???) are analogous to BRC/SQF you can hardly go wrong, eg see Post 5 in above link..

 

Why do you want a Calibration - Is the MD not working as you expected? Also see Post 9 of above link.

 

I imagine one of the difficulties for non-manufacturers of yr equipment  is that unless they have a detailed technical specification they probably don't know what the standard quantitative response for an appropriate test piece should be (if it exists)..

 

Did the MD arrive with any specification ? eg minimum detectable test piece/metal in an axial conveyor setting ?

[Tony-C]

Hi QAKat,

 

Any reason why you can’t do the validation yourselves?

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

 

[QAKat]

Strangely similar to another parallel thread/OP -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...it/#entry195872

 

I don't really see the problem - assuming Walmarr's validation requirements (???) are analogous to BRC/SQF you can hardly go wrong, eg see Post 5 in above link..

 

Why do you want a Calibration - Is the MD not working as you expected? Also see Post 9 of above link.

 

I imagine one of the difficulties for non-manufacturers of yr equipment  is that unless they have a detailed technical specification they probably don't know what the standard quantitative response for an appropriate test piece should be (if it exists)..

 

Did the MD arrive with any specification ? eg minimum detectable test piece/metal in an axial conveyor setting ?

Hi Charles, 

 

I apologize, I did not see that post or I would have gotten my information there.

 

They don't really have requirements just that they want to see foreign object mitigation validation. When I told them we didn't have they asked me if we had a metal detector and how we arrived at our verification activities, why do we use 3mm wands, where are the wands placed and why? Honestly I have never done a validation so this is where I run into the problem. When I arrived here they already had it set up like that so I do not know how to answer those questions or do the report/validation.

 

From what I see the MD works just fine, BUT if I were to place the SS wand towards the end of the product instead of the front there is a 99% chance the MD will not reject the product. That would be the only issue I see. Not sure if MD would need a calibration for that.

 

It comes with the user manual but I read it upwards & backwards and it doesn't have anything regarding specifications.

 

Thank you for the links to the other forums.

[QAKat]

Hi QAKat,

 

Any reason why you can’t do the validation yourselves?

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

Hi Tony, 

 

Because I do not know how >.<

[Tony-C]

Hi Tony, 

 

Because I do not know how >.<

 

Hi QAKat,

 

What about your mechanics/engineers? Is anyone competent on using and maintaining the equipment?

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[QAKat]

Hi QAKat,

 

What about your mechanics/engineers? Is anyone competent on using and maintaining the equipment?

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

It is a very small company so we have just 1 maintenance person. He is competent on maintaining/fixing equipment and he's very knowledgable, but he has never touched the MD, so I am not sure how capable he is on that.

[Charles.C]

 

Hi Charles, 

 

I apologize, I did not see that post or I would have gotten my information there.

 

They don't really have requirements just that they want to see foreign object mitigation validation. When I told them we didn't have they asked me if we had a metal detector and how we arrived at our (a) verification activities, (b )why do we use 3mm wands, © where are the wands placed and (d) why? Honestly I have never done a validation so this is where I run into the problem. When I arrived here they already had it set up like that so I do not know how to answer those questions or do the report/validation.

 

From what I see the MD works just fine, BUT if I were to place the SS wand towards the end of the product instead of the front there is a 99% chance the MD will not reject the product. That would be the only issue I see. Not sure if MD would need a calibration for that.

 

It comes with the user manual but I read it upwards & backwards and it doesn't have anything regarding specifications.

 

Thank you for the links to the other forums.

Hi Qkat,

 

Thks feedback.

Re^^^ (blue)-

 

IMO this is rather alarming and, offhand, suggests a basic System failure. Difficult to say much  more without more detailed info. on  product / setup /testing procedures etc.

 

I suggest -

 

(1) you acquire Walmart's MD specification requirements to hopefully understand (a-d) above in more detail.

(2) you get a Professional in to validate the System. The Validation must minimally, quantitatively, have a Scope which includes/documents  Walmart's requirements.

 

If you would like to watch an Overview of what might be included in "Scope"  (much more than a-d) can try this, IMO, excellent  (IFSQN) webinar by an MD specialist. (May get a bit "heavy" in some places).

 

Regarding (a-d) above, "possible" responses (except for c) are given in this Post (including attachments)   -

https://www.ifsqn.co...on/#entry184920

("c" is answered in the Overview linked above)

 

 

 

 

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