6 replies to this topic

[Foodprep]

Hello,

 

Our Cooking temperature CCP to control pathogens in vegetable soup is at 95C for 5 min. Soup is cooked in a kettle. Based on my research, Cooking at 95°C/203°F for 3.2 minutes results in a 6D reduction of C. botulinum non-proteolytic Type B and Cooking at 85°C/185°F for 0.02 minutes results in a 6 log reduction of Listeria monocytogenes . Wondering what's industry practice? Anyone can think of any issues with 95C for 5 min? 

 

Thanks in advance,

K

[Slab]

Those are both solid benchmarks from the FDA, conservative, and a general guidance for inactivation of two very heat tolerant organisms. There could be product formulation in which it would not be sufficient however. I would recommend conducting your own thermal process study to validate your controls. I have attached my f-value calculator which you can customize to Z,and ref temp for your particular process.

 

Also, the z-value changes for for temperatures less than 194°F (90°C), z = 12.6°F (7.0°C); for temperatures above 194°F (90°C), z = 18°F (10°C). The z-value for l. mono standards is z = 13.5°F (7.5°C).

 

 F-value Calculator.xlsx   26.29KB   88 downloads

 

 

[Charles.C]

Hello,

 

Our Cooking temperature CCP to control pathogens in vegetable soup is at 95C for 5 min. Soup is cooked in a kettle. Based on my research, Cooking at 95°C/203°F for 3.2 minutes results in a 6D reduction of C. botulinum non-proteolytic Type B and Cooking at 85°C/185°F for 0.02 minutes results in a 6 log reduction of Listeria monocytogenes . Wondering what's industry practice? Anyone can think of any issues with 95C for 5 min? 

 

Thanks in advance,

K

Hi K,

 

The perhaps more relevant question is why 95degC/5min ?, ie (presumably) why target C.botulinum ? Vacuum packed ?

[drk0904]

Hi @slab,

 

Thanks for attaching your calculator. Would surely help lot of people.

 

Could you guide us on how to use this calculator ?

 

I have attached my f-value calculator which you can customize to Z,and ref temp for your particular process.

 

F-value Calculator.xlsx

[Foodprep]

Those are both solid benchmarks from the FDA, conservative, and a general guidance for inactivation of two very heat tolerant organisms. There could be product formulation in which it would not be sufficient however. I would recommend conducting your own thermal process study to validate your controls. I have attached my f-value calculator which you can customize to Z,and ref temp for your particular process.

 

Also, the z-value changes for for temperatures less than 194°F (90°C), z = 12.6°F (7.0°C); for temperatures above 194°F (90°C), z = 18°F (10°C). The z-value for l. mono standards is z = 13.5°F (7.5°C).

 

F-value Calculator.xlsx

 

 

Hi K,

 

The perhaps more relevant question is why 95degC/5min ?, ie (presumably) why target C.botulinum ? Vacuum packed ?

 

 

Thanks guys! Maybe I should add more info for our product. We are not aiming for sterility. We cook our soups in steam kettle. Our soups are packed in small ready to heat containers plastic containers. We also pack it in bags which are partially vacuum sealed. My employer is a small business and they don't have the kind of money for me to perform detailed heat penetration studies esp. their business was hit hard during Covid like many others but they managed to crawl through it. I was hoping to set up their critical limits based on literature instead of performing a detailed study. I am also leaning towards 100C for 5 min. What are your thoughts? 

 

K 

[Charles.C]

Thanks guys! Maybe I should add more info for our product. We are not aiming for sterility. We cook our soups in steam kettle. Our soups are packed in small ready to heat containers plastic containers. We also pack it in bags which are partially vacuum sealed. My employer is a small business and they don't have the kind of money for me to perform detailed heat penetration studies esp. their business was hit hard during Covid like many others but they managed to crawl through it. I was hoping to set up their critical limits based on literature instead of performing a detailed study. I am also leaning towards 100C for 5 min. What are your thoughts? 

 

K 

Hi K,

 

Thks info. Unsure what you mean by "partial" vacuum so I assumed vac pack.

 

You omitted to mention  shelf life and storage conditions (eg frozen/refrigerated). These can be critical.

 

I assume this is a cook/chill process with refrigerated but not frozen storage (if frozen, the situation may substantially change).

 

Product type - vegetable soup.

 

Recommended cooking procedures vary in detail with location, ie Country

 

I anticipate yr product/cooking times/xD are controlled by Canadian Regulatory requirements.

 

The general thermal cooking (pasteurization) situation for a variety of Product types is discussed in file ckg 1 below (2017), particularly oriented to EC and USA.

 

 ckg1 - thermal pasteurization RTE foods and vegetables,2017.pdf   879.46KB   53 downloads

 

For Canada, I noted this (archived material) -

 

Pre-cooked refrigerated mixed vegetable soups would fall under Category 1, unless the physico-chemical parameters of the products are such that the growth of Listeria monocytogenes will not occur (i.e., pH < 4.4 regardless of a_w, a_w < 0.92 regardless of pH, combinations of factors pH < 5.0 and a_w < 0.94), in which case they would fall under Category 2B. For these products, food processors would need to monitor and maintain records of physico-chemical parameters such as pH and a_w, demonstrating that they continue to meet the criteria that justify their classification in this category. If information is insufficient, inadequate or no information exists to demonstrate that there is no potential growth of Listeria monocytogenes throughout the shelf-life, the food will be treated by default as a RTE food in which growth of Listeria monocytogenes can occur i.e., Category 1 RTE food.

https://www.inspecti...65692114?chap=0

I anticipate that the above is for non-vacuum packaged items.

 

I was not able to find a specific Canadian reference to vacuum packaged soup however this reference implies that for fish  haccp control  would likely involve C.botulinum in addition to L.monocytogenes.

https://www.inspecti...0/1412623333845

(see section 4.2.1)(the reason for inclusion is that C.botulinum is anaerobic)

 

The precise Canadian minimum cooking temperatures/times are probably stipulated somewhere in the maze of Canadian documents similar to links above however I was unable to find them.
 

(Tables for pasteurization of L.monocytogenes and C.botulinum are included in file ckg2 below which, respectively, approx.agree/agree  yr data -

 

 ckg2 - ECFF_Recommendations production chilled food 2006,.pdf   402.36KB   34 downloads

 

PS - JFI I enclose this analysis of a process analogous to the one you envisage but more oriented to meat products. May be of interest -

 

 example - cook-chill-vac-pack process.pdf   2.16MB   32 downloads

[Foodprep]

Hi K,

 

Thks info. Unsure what you mean by "partial" vacuum so I assumed vac pack.

 

You omitted to mention  shelf life and storage conditions (eg frozen/refrigerated). These can be critical.

 

I assume this is a cook/chill process with refrigerated but not frozen storage (if frozen, the situation may substantially change).

 

Product type - vegetable soup.

 

Recommended cooking procedures vary in detail with location, ie Country

 

I anticipate yr product/cooking times/xD are controlled by Canadian Regulatory requirements.

 

The general thermal cooking (pasteurization) situation for a variety of Product types is discussed in file ckg 1 below (2017), particularly oriented to EC and USA.

 

ckg1 - thermal pasteurization RTE foods and vegetables,2017.pdf

 

For Canada, I noted this (archived material) -

 

I anticipate that the above is for non-vacuum packaged items.

 

I was not able to find a specific Canadian reference to vacuum packaged soup however this reference implies that for fish  haccp control  would likely involve C.botulinum in addition to L.monocytogenes.

https://www.inspecti...0/1412623333845

(see section 4.2.1)(the reason for inclusion is that C.botulinum is anaerobic)

 

The precise Canadian minimum cooking temperatures/times are probably stipulated somewhere in the maze of Canadian documents similar to links above however I was unable to find them.
 

(Tables for pasteurization of L.monocytogenes and C.botulinum are included in file ckg2 below which, respectively, approx.agree/agree  yr data -

 

ckg2 - ECFF_Recommendations production chilled food 2006,.pdf

 

PS - JFI I enclose this analysis of a process analogous to the one you envisage but more oriented to meat products. May be of interest -

 

example - cook-chill-vac-pack process.pdf

Wow! So much information.  I think I have what I need. If more questions, I will come back to pick your brain :)

 

Thanks,

K