13 replies to this topic

[mayavigpesk]

Hello,

 Coliform limits for Ice cream is max 10 Cfu/g.

The facility is receiving and incorporating almonds into the ice cream. Coliform suggested limits (California)for almonds are <1000CFu/g. Was wondering if anyone had the same situation and can suggest how to deal with it as testing of the finished product is obviously coming above the allowable limit. 

Thank you,

MV

[olenazh]

It's a very strange coincidence as I'm having exactly the same problem right now at my ice cream place! Just instead of nuts we have issue with green tea - and, actually we don't know what to do: full micro profile looks perfect except for Coliform. What do we do? GUYS, HELP! 

[Brothbro]

Given that it's outside of specification, you would need to perform some kind of treatment or re-processing to bring it into spec. I'm not very familiar with nut/tea processing, but have you ever tried washing with a disinfectant, such as chlorine dioxide? I would assume the coliforms are on the surface of the nuts. A bath with a ClO2 concentration of 1.6 ppm could help to reduce the counts. Chlorine dioxide tablets can be sourced to add to 1gal quantities of water to make a concentrated solution which is then added to a bath to dilute it down to the proper concentration. I source mine from https://aphinitywater.com/

 

Tea may not be able withstand washing, so perhaps a light heat treatment may work. Could the leaves be heated with dry heat at a lowish temp (~70C?) to attempt to kill the coliforms? I am unsure if these temperatures would damage the tea....

[Charles.C]

Unfortunately It sounds like the nuts and green tea are just not microbiologically suitable for mixing with RTE ice-cream.

IMEX a product exhibiting a coliform level of up to 1000cfu/g is simply a no-no for RTE purposes.

The solution is probably a new recipe or pre-treated additives.

[G M]

Source the ingredient from someone who can certify to a lower acceptable count.  Heat treatments like roasting for the nuts or pasteurization as a 'syrup' for the green tea might get you there, but why not just have the supplier do that if you don't normally have to treat your ingredients? 

 

An "after" treatment probably isn't practical, but I'm sure some ionizing radiation would fix it.  

[Tony-C]

Unfortunately It sounds like the nuts and green tea are just not microbiologically suitable for mixing with RTE ice-cream.

IMEX a product exhibiting a coliform level of up to 1000cfu/g is simply a no-no for RTE purposes.

The solution is probably a new recipe or pre-treated additives.

 

Completely agree Charles 

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[kingstudruler1]

can you use blanched almonds?

 

are you sourcing from an "inclusion" supplier?   I guess I would have hoped that they had a solution for nut micro for ice cream.   

 

How are you using the green tea?    Also seems like there should be a solution to this.   

[hello.fizz]

I am having a similar conversation with a cashew supplier. Their limits are very high and well beyond our final product limits (which we do not cook). They have not had a high reading but their spec allows for it. 

 

Other than changing raw materials- to a roasted nut- which would require a management decision, I am also unsure what to do.

[Scampi]

I am having a similar conversation with a cashew supplier. Their limits are very high and well beyond our final product limits (which we do not cook). They have not had a high reading but their spec allows for it. 

 

Other than changing raw materials- to a roasted nut- which would require a management decision, I am also unsure what to do.

 

 

 

Is the supplier willing to work with you?   Are they willing to lower the upper limit?

 

However, if they NEVER come close to the upper limit-and are allowable to be used---is the issue worth pushing?

[MDaleDDF]

I am having a similar conversation with a cashew supplier. Their limits are very high and well beyond our final product limits (which we do not cook). They have not had a high reading but their spec allows for it. 

 

Other than changing raw materials- to a roasted nut- which would require a management decision, I am also unsure what to do.

 

I've experienced this with a supplier as well.   They have their limits set high, even though they don't test near that, just in case...

[hello.fizz]

Is the supplier willing to work with you?   Are they willing to lower the upper limit?

 

However, if they NEVER come close to the upper limit-and are allowable to be used---is the issue worth pushing?

 

They are a distributor and the product is imported. They were not willing to change it. As they haven't come near the upper limit and provide consistent quality I am not pursuing it with them, but have ensured that management are aware of the high upper limit.

[Charles.C]

They are a distributor and the product is imported. They were not willing to change it. As they haven't come near the upper limit and provide consistent quality I am not pursuing it with them, but have ensured that management are aware of the high upper limit.

Hi h.f,

 

The snag is that if any final product/cashew micro. problem does occur and you have implicitly/explicitly agreed to receive out-of-spec. ingredients,  your Company's  "due diligence" may already be contractually compromised.

[olenazh]

Hey guys, my story with Coliform count on Green Tea ice cream has a continuation and surprising finale. For years, we've been having this discrepancy between our Coliform testing results and the accredited lab ones - though, we used the same testing methods (Petrifilm). Our testing always showed clean while lab's showed count (though - never E. Coli). We've wracked our brain figuring out why that was happening - and finally, when the company owner had a discussion with the lab personnel, including lab head and techs, it appeared that lab techs didn't do their job right! They counted gas bubbles as Coliform colonies - but those bubbles were just the air bubbles (due to the nature of ice cream having incorporated air). The company owner showed them a testing guidance clearly describing what should be considered Coliform colonies, and what - not. I'm just outlining a situation for whomever were under similar circumstances. 

[Charles.C]

Hey guys, my story with Coliform count on Green Tea ice cream has a continuation and surprising finale. For years, we've been having this discrepancy between our Coliform testing results and the accredited lab ones - though, we used the same testing methods (Petrifilm). Our testing always showed clean while lab's showed count (though - never E. Coli). We've wracked our brain figuring out why that was happening - and finally, when the company owner had a discussion with the lab personnel, including lab head and techs, it appeared that lab techs didn't do their job right! They counted gas bubbles as Coliform colonies - but those bubbles were just the air bubbles (due to the nature of ice cream having incorporated air). The company owner showed them a testing guidance clearly describing what should be considered Coliform colonies, and what - not. I'm just outlining a situation for whomever were under similar circumstances. 

Hi Olena,

 

I'm guessing the dispute involved use of VRB medium.

 

If so, this also has another potential error (depending on the product type), non-specificity for Coliforms giving high, sometimes very high, counts. Have had several "ding-dongs" with customers over this.

 

At low levels, MPN is IMO without competition (was developed for such situations). Unfortunately many Labs are unwilling to pay/wait > 1 day.