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Listeria on raw meat

listeria

Best Answer SQFconsultant, 04 June 2020 - 12:39 PM

" I asked supplier to address the issue and he claims Listeria can't be avoided on raw meat, it's everywhere he says. They slaughter their own cattle and have their processing room in the building next to the abattoir"

 

This explains why all Ravioli packages we buy at the store have specific time and temperature warnings for cooking - that aside, the above is an interesting thing for a supplier to admit to.

 

If they can't get it under control you will need to consider getting a new supplier.

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#1 alarico2002

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 10:38 PM

Hello everyone!

 

I'm a quality officer working for a pasta manufacturer, certified SQF. We manufacture fresh pasta, filled and unfilled (ravioli and lasagna).

 

Process as follows:

 

Raw materials --> minced meat, veggies, oil, spices, cheese ---> kitchen (MEDIUM AREA) for the filling preparation. Meat filling is cooked 90C for 10mins (CCP) and then cooled down in 6 hours in blast chiller (CCP). We also mix uncooked fillings in the kitchen (i.e. ricotta and spinach).

 

Fillings are used next day in forming machines and filled pasta is formed with semolina and egg dough (MEDIUM AREA).

 

Formed pasta --> Pasteurized (CCP, 80C for 6 secs min) --> straight into HIGH CARE area in chillers (CCP cool down in 6 hr) then packed in high care under MAP --> goes into base area to be boxed and dispatched. 

 

I recently found listeria (spp innocua) in raw meat (minced beef) during my random tests. I asked supplier to address the issue and he claims Listeria can't be avoided on raw meat, it's everywhere he says. They slaughter their own cattle and have their processing room in the building next to the abattoir. 

 

Premises

- I know I have controls in place to monitor Listeria (CCPs cooking, different risk areas, separation, EMP,  my product is not ready to eat etc)

- I know Listeria is quite spread in raw - low risk- meat processing plants because you're supposed to cook the product

- I know meat processing plants are not required to test for Listeria

- I know Listeria innocua is not a pathogen (although an indicator), I audited the plant and would not be surprised to find L. Mono in there. 

- I have no experience in meat processes 

 

Now my question is:

 

Is it too much to expect your raw meat supplier not to have Listeria on the minced raw meat? Is it too much to ask him to control and address the issue, separate rooms, enforce sanitation and PPEs? What's the point of having an approved supplier program then? 

 

I refuse to believe we need to accept Listeria as inherent in fresh raw cuts, maybe it's just me-at (ahah) . I'm not sure.  

 

Thanks in advance. 



#2 Charles.C

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 12:51 AM

Hello everyone!

 

I'm a quality officer working for a pasta manufacturer, certified SQF. We manufacture fresh pasta, filled and unfilled (ravioli and lasagna).

 

Process as follows:

 

Raw materials --> minced meat, veggies, oil, spices, cheese ---> kitchen (MEDIUM AREA) for the filling preparation. Meat filling is cooked 90C for 10mins (CCP) and then cooled down in 6 hours in blast chiller (CCP). We also mix uncooked fillings in the kitchen (i.e. ricotta and spinach).

 

Fillings are used next day in forming machines and filled pasta is formed with semolina and egg dough (MEDIUM AREA).

 

Formed pasta --> Pasteurized (CCP, 80C for 6 secs min) --> straight into HIGH CARE area in chillers (CCP cool down in 6 hr) then packed in high care under MAP --> goes into base area to be boxed and dispatched. 

 

I recently found listeria (spp innocua) in raw meat (minced beef) during my random tests. I asked supplier to address the issue and he claims Listeria can't be avoided on raw meat, it's everywhere he says. They slaughter their own cattle and have their processing room in the building next to the abattoir. 

 

Premises

- I know I have controls in place to monitor Listeria (CCPs cooking, different risk areas, separation, EMP,  my product is not ready to eat etc)

- I know Listeria is quite spread in raw - low risk- meat processing plants because you're supposed to cook the product

- I know meat processing plants are not required to test for Listeria

- I know Listeria innocua is not a pathogen (although an indicator), I audited the plant and would not be surprised to find L. Mono in there. 

- I have no experience in meat processes 

 

Now my question is:

 

Is it too much to expect your raw meat supplier not to have Listeria on the minced raw meat? Is it too much to ask him to control and address the issue, separate rooms, enforce sanitation and PPEs? What's the point of having an approved supplier program then? 

 

I refuse to believe we need to accept Listeria as inherent in fresh raw cuts, maybe it's just me-at (ahah) . I'm not sure.  

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

^^^^^red

 

You will probably have to believe, eg -

 

Attached File  control-of-listeria-monocytogenes-in-small-meat.pdf   1.08MB   23 downloads


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#3 SQFconsultant

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 12:39 PM   Best Answer

" I asked supplier to address the issue and he claims Listeria can't be avoided on raw meat, it's everywhere he says. They slaughter their own cattle and have their processing room in the building next to the abattoir"

 

This explains why all Ravioli packages we buy at the store have specific time and temperature warnings for cooking - that aside, the above is an interesting thing for a supplier to admit to.

 

If they can't get it under control you will need to consider getting a new supplier.


Kind regards,

 

Glenn Oster
 
 
GOC GROUP / +1.800.793.7042 / Food - Food Packaging - Food Storage/DC

SQF, BRC & IFS System Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants

Serving Small-to-Mid-Size Businesses | International Cross-Border C-CUR Acceptance

Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant | SQF, BRC & IFS Pre-Development or Pre-Audit GAP

http://www.GlennOsterConsulting.com  -- 

 

Internal Auditor Training - $50 per person

https://glennosterco...uditor-training

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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#4 MsMars

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:37 PM

IME, unfortunately your supplier is probably right.  If they do not provide a kill step before shipping to you, then you can reasonably expect to see pathogens such as listeria from time to time on raw meat. 



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